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OrbStack: The fast, light, and easy way to run Docker containers and Linux

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Re: OrbStack: The fast, light, and easy way to run Docker containers and Linux

#111

Post by talldayo »

pjmlp wrote: post #28
magnio wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny how WSL2 makes Windows much more usable than macOS for development. None of the free options (colima, multipass, etc) I've tried on macOS are as smooth, though OrbStack might be it. I have also moved towards using devcontainers for my projects whenever I can, so that I can spin up my environment on whatever machine I have, or connect to a remote one if the machine doesn't allow it.

Only because it is a Linux VM, and people insist on using Linux specific stuff instead of UNIX, to the point younger generations have no clue about the difference. Even the BSDs and Solaris/Illumos have add to add Linux translation layers. Sad state where POSIX hardly matters for portable UNIX code.

> Sad state where POSIX hardly matters for portable UNIX code.

Given the current state of POSIX applications, I would actually argue that the BSD/Linux hegemony we enjoy is the best possible outcome. The only people that are mad are the people paying for UNIX and expecting to get something better for it. Those people should have learned their lesson in the 90s, I have no empathy for POSIX apologists in 2024.

The only "sad state" is one where everyday people don't have access to free software. Mac users have always paid a time premium and a performance premium for access to normal development features, this ignorance of MacOS is a pattern that persists since the 90s. Of course nobody is bending over backwards to test portability with a proprietary OS.

Re: OrbStack: The fast, light, and easy way to run Docker containers and Linux

#113

Post by talldayo »

jchw wrote: post #10
magnio wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny how WSL2 makes Windows much more usable than macOS for development. None of the free options (colima, multipass, etc) I've tried on macOS are as smooth, though OrbStack might be it. I have also moved towards using devcontainers for my projects whenever I can, so that I can spin up my environment on whatever machine I have, or connect to a remote one if the machine doesn't allow it.

> None of the free options (colima, multipass, etc) I've tried on macOS are as smooth, though OrbStack might be it. Yes, I am generally not terribly impressed by colima. Of course, it's great to have as an option, but in practice I ran into issues trying to use it in various places. One issue that I am sure isn't a huge deal to most users is that as far as I could tell, colima did not support IPv6. I didn't try multi…

Imagine paying a subscription service to use something slower than QEMU. Yikes...

Re: OrbStack: The fast, light, and easy way to run Docker containers and Linux

#114

Post by talldayo »

_joel wrote: post #83
commandersaki wrote: post #31

OrbStack is by far some of the best software I've encountered on Mac, but unfortunately I have difficulty convincing my employer to pay for a commercial license, and with my sparse Docker usage, I'm confined to using it only for personal/hobby usage. What's amazing is it fixes an (almost) show stopper bug when using libuv (or software that uses it like CMake) with Rosetta 2 [1], with the bug present on all Docker/VMs…

$8 a month/user for the speed and productivity improvement seems, err, shortsighted.

On the flip side, I empathize with the employer wondering why their "developer laptop" needs a monthly subscription to do what their Production server does for free. Maybe they should just use UTM in the meantime.

Re: OrbStack: The fast, light, and easy way to run Docker containers and Linux

#115

Post by _joel »

talldayo wrote: post #114
_joel wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$8 a month/user for the speed and productivity improvement seems, err, shortsighted.

On the flip side, I empathize with the employer wondering why their "developer laptop" needs a monthly subscription to do what their Production server does for free. Maybe they should just use UTM in the meantime.

I'm not sure what you mean by prod server in this context, we deploy to k8s. We use testcontainers[1] that run locally on the laptop via IntelliJ. There's a bunch of integration tests that take a good while to boot via docker-desktop. If these tests can be sped up significantly then it's worth that $8 a month. I'd like to remind you that technically docker desktop isn't free, either. Nor is pushing tests to run via CI/CD first. That iteration cycle would take even longer.

[1] https://testcontainers.com/

Re: OrbStack: The fast, light, and easy way to run Docker containers and Linux

#116

Post by globular-toast »

withinboredom wrote: post #7

I love how there is absolutely no mention that it is mac-only (or even what versions of mac are supported), even on the download page.

Yeah, I was quite confused, especially by the title "docker containers and Linux"? What does that mean? If you can run Linux you can run docker. I thought it might have been a batteries included Linux distro at first.

Re: OrbStack: The fast, light, and easy way to run Docker containers and Linux

#117

Post by pjmlp »

withinboredom wrote: post #107
pjmlp wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rather people using a UNIX, that isn't GNU/Linux, instead of sponsoring Linux OEMs.

Pretty sure orbstack won't run on other unix systems.

Buying a Linux powered laptop would have sorted out the problem in first place.

Re: OrbStack: The fast, light, and easy way to run Docker containers and Linux

#118

Post by DandyDev »

commandersaki wrote: post #54
cedws wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to be blunt but your employer must be real penny pinchers, it’s not that expensive, and it’s a tool that would help you get the job done.

Fair criticism and I agree -- to that point, we're asked to bring our own devices to work without any compensation or the like (though it does have its advantages). I've considered paying out of my own pocket, but I just don't use Docker outside of work, and that's kind of where I draw the line at paying for software to do work.

You have to bring your own device? Do you have a major stake in the company you work for? Do you get an outrageously high salary? If the answer is no on both, you are taken major advantage of and you should quit asap

Re: OrbStack: The fast, light, and easy way to run Docker containers and Linux

#119

Post by majormajor »

magnio wrote: post #9
jchw wrote: post #8

I don't generally prefer to work on macOS, but if I wind up using macOS to do work, I often find myself working a lot on things in virtual machines and containers. Using Docker Desktop to compile Envoy using the standard Docker build process took somewhere in the ball park of 3 to 4 hours depending on my luck. OrbStack, on the other hand, brought it down to a bit under an hour, much closer to inline with a fresh comp…

Funny how WSL2 makes Windows much more usable than macOS for development. None of the free options (colima, multipass, etc) I've tried on macOS are as smooth, though OrbStack might be it. I have also moved towards using devcontainers for my projects whenever I can, so that I can spin up my environment on whatever machine I have, or connect to a remote one if the machine doesn't allow it.

I've never found working on WSL2 to be quite as smooth as working on Ubuntu or Fedora directly. I don't really understand why I'd keep Windows in the loop there if I was on non-Mac hardward.

And I've also found WSL2 less smooth than just working on Mac natively w/o containers. Containers are a necessary evil for testing certain types of things locally, but even the free tools for working with them on Mac seem fine, though Orbstack's gui is very nice.

(Is there a similar GUI for Linux container management? I've just been running shell commands for years now...)

Instead of moving more towards containers I've just been moving towards simpler, easier-to-set-up-on-Linux-or-Mac toolchains. But I don't have Windows as a target anyway, so that removes one huge need for containers.

Re: OrbStack: The fast, light, and easy way to run Docker containers and Linux

#120

Post by pjmlp »

saagarjha wrote: post #101
pjmlp wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There isn't any in POSIX, then again, it isn't as if we now need containers for every executable for any magical reason. Also, just like in the good old days, it isn't hard to have something dealing with HP-UX Vaults, Aix logical partitions, Solaris/Ilumnos Zones, BSD jails, macOS Virtualiztion Framework,....

Just listing technologies that sound kind of similar isn’t enough to actually answer the problems people want solved. The “good old days” were basically just people crying about being unable to have any of the features we have now because they don’t match up or differ in subtly different ways.

Best way to solve problems is not to have them in first place, like getting a Linux laptop for doing Linux work.
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