Amazon Still Has a Counterfeit Problem • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon Still Has a Counterfeit Problem

#111

Post by mynameisvlad » Wed, Aug 28, 2024, 10:08 PM UTC

snakeyjake wrote: post #109

mynameisvlad wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any proof they are not commingling? Have they outright said it at any point? Because there's more than enough anecdotes out there (and in previous threads about it on HN) that show that 1st party products are not treated any differently.

Amazon has to list the value of their inventory in financial reports. If they were commingling every single report would be a lie. Also, they explicitly state that: >Generally, we recognize gross revenue from items we sell from our inventory as product sales and recognize our net share of revenue of items sold by third-party sellers as service sales. If they were commingling, those figures would be a lie. The reason…

Ok cool, so they haven't actually said it anywhere. You're just assuming because of your interpretation of wording in their reports, and then taking it to the slippery slope extreme.

> If inventory that you have title to and inventory you do not have title to is commingled there is no way to track which of the two have been sold, who holds title to what remains and inventory, and what that is worth.

How is this not a problem for the 3rd parties with commingled inventory? Amazon clearly has a way to know which of the many 3rd party sellers they commingled sold the product in order to pay them, and know how many products are in stock across their commingled inventory.

Considering the product is supposedly the same, the cost would be the same, and they would only need to do the exact same tracking they do with 3rd party sellers whenever they themselves sell an item from the commingled pile.

By design, it is assured that the number of products you put into the system are the number you will eventually sell, even if it's not the exact same physical product. And that is totally fine if the products are identical and cost the same. That is the whole point of the commingling system; that the products are meant to be completely interchangeable. There's no accounting magic to be done, you're just tracking the number you sold vs the number you put in.

https://www.reddit.com/r/FulfillmentByAmazon/comments/dmrri4...

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21243814

https://amazonsellerslawyer.com/blog/amazon-commingled-inven...

Re: Amazon Still Has a Counterfeit Problem

#112

Post by nothercastle » Wed, Aug 28, 2024, 10:35 PM UTC

snakeyjake wrote: post #109

mynameisvlad wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any proof they are not commingling? Have they outright said it at any point? Because there's more than enough anecdotes out there (and in previous threads about it on HN) that show that 1st party products are not treated any differently.

Amazon has to list the value of their inventory in financial reports. If they were commingling every single report would be a lie. Also, they explicitly state that: >Generally, we recognize gross revenue from items we sell from our inventory as product sales and recognize our net share of revenue of items sold by third-party sellers as service sales. If they were commingling, those figures would be a lie. The reason…

They can commingle but simply keep track of how much of the inventory is theirs and how much is not. I think you have a limited understand of how their system works.

I got an Amazon product the other day, likely counterfeit, Amazon listed as seller and has 3rd party sticky barcodes on the packaging. How is that possible without commingling.

Re: Amazon Still Has a Counterfeit Problem

#113

Post by meowster » Wed, Aug 28, 2024, 10:42 PM UTC

bromuk wrote: post #23

Pretty much correct, I received a fake razer mouse that I ordered last month. Luckily it was a direct replacement for the same one I purchased > 3 years ago so could compare. Amazon provided no way to report the counterfeit and when talking to their support just wanted me to return it as fault. No doubt this will go back into the supply chain and someone unbeknownst to counterfeits will receive it.

Take a sharpie and write "counterfeit" on it before sending it back.

Re: Amazon Still Has a Counterfeit Problem

#114

Post by filoleg » Wed, Aug 28, 2024, 10:46 PM UTC

jghn wrote: post #79

somethoughts wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hypocrisy is apparent when you notice that the pretty much the only brand of products that miraculously does not have third party resellers listed (and hence escapes third party inventory commingling contamination issues) is Amazon Basics. [1] [1] Only "Amazon Resale" third party resellers are shown https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-8-Piece-Non-Stick-Kitche...

Granted Amazon Basics products aren't much different than buying some knockoff on Aliexpress in the first place ...

Nah, let’s not go this far. Might be true for some AmazonBasics product categories, but I have a specific example where this is just not true.

Their AmazonBasics monitor arms are manufactured by Ergotron (aka one of the most reputable and best monitor arm brands out there). I have both AmazonBasics and Ergotron arms (purchased from their official website), and it is clear as day that they are nearly the exact same product.

I purchased the AmazonBasics arms back in 2016, and they still serve me great to this day, surviving 2 moves between west-east coast and many more local moves.

You can call this anecdata, but both AmazonBasics monitor arms and Ergotron ones have excellent reputation.

Re: Amazon Still Has a Counterfeit Problem

#115

Post by nothercastle » Wed, Aug 28, 2024, 10:48 PM UTC

throwaway48476 wrote: post #73

jerf wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Ordered 2 flash drives both are probably counterfeit the first 1-2gb of write are at spec and then the speed drops to 1/3 of spec." If you're writing to them constantly, that doesn't prove they are counterfeit. They will thermally throttle. Naturally, specs don't talk so much about that part. I have an older one that throttles down to almost nothing, but it is still technically writing correctly. I don't use it much…

This has nothing to do with heat. Almost all SSD's have an SLC mode where part of the drive is operated in fast SLC mode. After the SLC cache is filled it will write to the slower TLC/QLC area. Any SSD benchmark will show this. SMR hard drives also do this.

That’s probably what happens. That’s why they go from 120mb/sec down to a sad 20

Re: Amazon Still Has a Counterfeit Problem

#116

Post by tmoertel » Wed, Aug 28, 2024, 11:40 PM UTC

yazaddaruvala wrote: post #102

tmoertel wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did that Transparency thing with the code stickers and the verification app ever make an appreciable difference?

Oh man.. buy me a G&T for the whole story :) I would say Not enough for how many engineers they had. It had all of the promise, and was frankly mismanaged. They kept promoting engineers who wanted it to become an AWS service (agnostic of Amazon) rather than solving the Amazon problems at hand. For example they built a new product identifier… Amazon did not need yet another database of products. This stuff was constan…

That's fascinating! I bought something recently, I think it was an Anker USB-C cable, and saw that little T logo on the packaging and wondered whether Transparency was still a thing. I tried the app on the logo/code, and the code seemed to check out. This, frankly, surprised me since I hadn't heard anything about Transparency in years.

Thanks for some of the backstory. I always thought they had an interesting idea but the trick would be fast, focused execution to reach critical mass with both suppliers and end users before it fizzled out.

Re: Amazon Still Has a Counterfeit Problem

#117

Post by TheBozzCL » Thu, Aug 29, 2024, 12:38 AM UTC

goostavos wrote: post #60

bee_rider wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only downside about canceling Prime is that you can only do it once. I canceled prime because they started putting ads in their video service, despite the fact that I was paying for it. That was a fun one. Now it’s like, well, what else can I do? I guess I’m boycotting Amazon, but is it really boycotting when their store is “here’s a random electronic device, maybe it is what you ordered,” I mean, why would I pla…

The ads thing is unreal. "Customer obsession". I pay the extra 2.99 and still see pre-roll ads, but those apparently, according to customer service, don't count as ads. Oh, and part of the platform is under "freevee," which is an ad-based service, so "obviously" the fee for removing ads doesn't apply to that one. Prime started out great. I still like that I can pay money in exchange for watching something, but ham-fi…

The same thing made me cancel Apple TV. People keep telling me “but those aren’t ads, they’re trailers!”

Re: Amazon Still Has a Counterfeit Problem

#118

Post by yazaddaruvala » Thu, Aug 29, 2024, 1:29 AM UTC

jodrellblank wrote: post #107

yazaddaruvala wrote: post #31

AMA, I led the eng team that built Project Zero (named in the article) and also designed or helped design most of Amazon's automated detection systems for Brands. Disclaimer: I haven't worked at Amazon for 3 years - my info is likely stale.

Do you buy from Amazon?

lol, fair question.

Yes I do. In general, the convenience is too nice.

If you're specifically worried about health issues:

- The Pharmacy features are pretty locked down (but nothing is perfect). I wouldn't buy pills from a rando 3p seller, or even "Sold by Amazon" tho.

- For other health related products (like creams, kitchen stuff, clothes or other things that are on me), I just check that the Brand is the listed seller and no other sellers exist on the product.

- For non-health related products (shower curtains, garden hose, etc) I don't really care if it is "not perfect" in terms of quality, etc.

Meanwhile, if you're buying products where the Brand=ZFDSC or any other character salad - you should expect whatever you get. I still have purchased them (e.g. a sticker that makes my windows look like stained glass - I don't care that its cheap garbage from China - it looks good and unlikely to be bad enough to kill me at that distance), but certainly would not buy those Brands' expecting lasting quality.

Re: Amazon Still Has a Counterfeit Problem

#119

Post by x0x0 » Thu, Aug 29, 2024, 8:28 AM UTC

onewheeltom wrote: post #105

x0x0 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

btw, they seal the vacuum in those things with lead. If shoddy workmanship is in evidence, you may want to discontinue using it.

The lead plug is on the outside of the vacuum vessel and never comes in contact with the inside of the mug. Old, invalid complaint

In real ones, maybe.

In the cheapest chinese knockoffs... I wouldn't bet my health on that, and anyone who does is foolish.

Re: Amazon Still Has a Counterfeit Problem

#120

Post by x0x0 » Thu, Aug 29, 2024, 8:30 AM UTC

HeatrayEnjoyer wrote: post #91

x0x0 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

btw, they seal the vacuum in those things with lead. If shoddy workmanship is in evidence, you may want to discontinue using it.

Why lead?

It's an easily workable metal, and apparently the easiest way to seal the hole made when they empty the vacuum chamber and / or produce certain welds.

https://www.wired.com/story/stanley-cup-lead-soldering/