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Meta cancels high-end mixed reality headset after Apple Vision Pro struggles

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Re: Meta cancels high-end mixed reality headset after Apple Vision Pro struggles

#111

Post by geoelectric »

screye wrote: post #53

A counter point on premium VR headsets. They are teleportation devices. I've used every popular VR device, but one Vision Pro experience stood out - 'The Haleakala environment'[1] It was literally like being transported there. I know because I had been in that exact spot a few years before. I have a rich visual memory which served as reference, and no exaggeration, it felt like was there. I was immediately in tears.…

The thing is that I don’t really see the Vision Pro as Palm OS. Palm OS was out for years and years and was really successful, all things considered.

Sure, it wasn’t as ubiquitous as iOS or Android now, but it obviously filled a niche for a large enough number of people that it stuck around and pioneered that market. I had a Kyocera 6035 Palm “smartphone” over half a decade before the iPhone came out, and the Handspring Treos were also awfully popular among early adopters.

That credit here goes squarely to Oculus/Meta, and the Quest in specific.

Vision Pro, at best, is a Newton, stuffed with tech cool enough to be Really Neat, but with either too much tradeoff or that doesn’t go far enough to be a sea change in usability. There’s a little bit of Pippin in there too, with Apple not quite understanding how much games and game like activities drive VR adoption and how best to leverage that. Ultimately, the Vision Pro is a tech demo for a much better device and ecosystem in the future.

I think the one thing the VP has going for it over a Newton is timing. For once, later is better. Newton did all their stuff way early—then Palm came out with a fraction of it and turned out to be Good Enough so everyone forgot the Newton.

In this case, we already have Quest out as the Good Enough device, which makes it the right time to start discussing what the evolution would be. In that sense, I think the Vision Pro is very interesting.

Re: Meta cancels high-end mixed reality headset after Apple Vision Pro struggles

#112

Post by Der_Einzige »

numpad0 wrote: post #62

Isn't it simple why AVP isn't moving? They don't treat anime-loli-porn content, chiefly VRChat, as first class citizens, if they support those at all. Tons of people have bought and are buying Quest 2 and 3 as well as its competitors with sole intent of using it with VRChat. Don't you guys all remember that iPhoneOS had YouTube since version 1.0, before it even had App Store? Where would you think iOS would have been…

Watching the same dynamic play out in GenAI. Stability AI refused to cater to this crowd (the chief actual users of their models) and are paying like hell for it. The reality is that coomers ARE the market for a lot of GenAI, no matter how much puritans don't want to admit it.

Re: Meta cancels high-end mixed reality headset after Apple Vision Pro struggles

#113

Post by cdchn »

redundantly wrote: post #90
cdchn wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you'll ever be able to. Maybe not for decades for AR/VR. The AI stuff is cool; you can offload that, but mostly they'll just be a glorified camera mount and headphones for the actual 'glasses.'

Your comment won't age well.

Guess we'll see in a few decades.

People thought VR was on the brink of mass market breakthrough in the 90s too.

Re: Meta cancels high-end mixed reality headset after Apple Vision Pro struggles

#114

Post by jacobgkau »

brailsafe wrote: post #52
pocketarc wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or maybe these are just products we don't need? That's exactly it, they're products we don't -need-. If you already have a smartphone, that's good enough. This is the same problem that plagues the AI assistant devices - it doesn't matter what they can do, they won't replace your smartphone. Which means you're asking someone to carry (and pay for) a smartphone + an extra device. That's a big ask. It's also the reaso…

> If you already have a smartphone, that's good enough. Sure, but I don't think nearly enough people are sufficiently critical of their need for a smartphone either; I tend to think of it like cars, we've just allowed ourselves to let these devices service so much our day-to-day tasks that they seem like necessary appendages. If it goes away, we panic and buy another one, never stopping to sit with that absence. If m…

To be fair, when you say "we've allowed cars to become necessary," you're talking about "we" as a society allowing that to happen-- me ditching my car after it breaks down tomorrow wouldn't be feasible unless I'm also willing to move to a much different part of my metro, get a new job, and find all-new hobbies and friend groups. That's not a decision most individuals have the power to make because they feel like trying it.

On the other hand, as you point out, a lot of what phones can do can also be done with larger computers. Most workplaces don't require employees to use their personal cell phones on a daily basis. It's practically a fad to "disconnect" for a while, and most individuals would be able to get by while doing that, especially if they still have a working computer.

Looking at this from a contradicting angle, cars actually have safety, environmental, and logistical concerns that make society's dependence on them a physically questionable idea. When I visited Japan for three weeks earlier this year and took public transportation everywhere, I was still using Google Maps on my cell phone to get just about everywhere, just like I do here at home in the US when I'm driving. So I think the "need" for a smartphone for navigation actually eclipses the societal need for cars to move people around.

So I don't think the comparison you're making holds up very deeply, other than on a very abstract societal level. Smartphones have a much wider array of possible usages than cars, and cars have a much more individually critical role in peoples' lives than cell phones.

Re: Meta cancels high-end mixed reality headset after Apple Vision Pro struggles

#116

Post by Miraste »

screye wrote: post #53

A counter point on premium VR headsets. They are teleportation devices. I've used every popular VR device, but one Vision Pro experience stood out - 'The Haleakala environment'[1] It was literally like being transported there. I know because I had been in that exact spot a few years before. I have a rich visual memory which served as reference, and no exaggeration, it felt like was there. I was immediately in tears.…

The potential is amazing, and it's what has gotten so many people to sink so much time, effort, and money into developing these things ever since the Oculus devkits.

But the hardware isn't there yet either. If it keeps enough momentum to develop, we're going to look back at these headsets like 90s smartphones. The AVP and the Quest are heavy. They're thick. Their battery life is terrible, and despite how good Apple's screens and camera software are, they still have a long way to go in lots of areas before they really deliver on a virtual reality.

The software is probably the bigger problem, but the hardware needs a lot of help before normal people are going to use these on a regular basis.

Re: Meta cancels high-end mixed reality headset after Apple Vision Pro struggles

#117

Post by Miraste »

geoelectric wrote: post #111
screye wrote: post #53

A counter point on premium VR headsets. They are teleportation devices. I've used every popular VR device, but one Vision Pro experience stood out - 'The Haleakala environment'[1] It was literally like being transported there. I know because I had been in that exact spot a few years before. I have a rich visual memory which served as reference, and no exaggeration, it felt like was there. I was immediately in tears.…

The thing is that I don’t really see the Vision Pro as Palm OS. Palm OS was out for years and years and was really successful, all things considered. Sure, it wasn’t as ubiquitous as iOS or Android now, but it obviously filled a niche for a large enough number of people that it stuck around and pioneered that market. I had a Kyocera 6035 Palm “smartphone” over half a decade before the iPhone came out, and the Handspr…

My hope is that the Vision Pro is like the Apple Watch. It launched without a clear idea of why people would buy it--originally Apple tried to sell their bland aluminum box as a fashion accessory--and it was only after multiple iterations that they found out health and fitness was the main appeal and focused on it. If they pay attention to how people do use VR headsets, maybe they can do that again.

Re: Meta cancels high-end mixed reality headset after Apple Vision Pro struggles

#118

Post by glhaynes »

screye wrote: post #53

A counter point on premium VR headsets. They are teleportation devices. I've used every popular VR device, but one Vision Pro experience stood out - 'The Haleakala environment'[1] It was literally like being transported there. I know because I had been in that exact spot a few years before. I have a rich visual memory which served as reference, and no exaggeration, it felt like was there. I was immediately in tears.…

I had such an emotional experience using the visionOS 2 beta to spatialize old photos. It was already amazing seeing it take a photo from 15 years ago and turn it 3D; but then when I "pinched" into it to make it become immersive and was suddenly in a place I hadn't been in years, with my (then young) kids looking just as they did back then, seeming to be standing there in the room with me… it was profound. I can't think of any other experience with technology I've had that even comes close.

Re: Meta cancels high-end mixed reality headset after Apple Vision Pro struggles

#119

Post by silverlake »

screye wrote: post #53

A counter point on premium VR headsets. They are teleportation devices. I've used every popular VR device, but one Vision Pro experience stood out - 'The Haleakala environment'[1] It was literally like being transported there. I know because I had been in that exact spot a few years before. I have a rich visual memory which served as reference, and no exaggeration, it felt like was there. I was immediately in tears.…

The immersive videos are amazing. Stick a VR camera on the best seat at a concert, sports event, wedding, etc. People will pay for Taylor Swift or the Super Bowl. The tech is very close, the Quest is a good price, VR cameras are ~$5k. The only thing left is the content creators.

Re: Meta cancels high-end mixed reality headset after Apple Vision Pro struggles

#120

Post by geoelectric »

Miraste wrote: post #117
geoelectric wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is that I don’t really see the Vision Pro as Palm OS. Palm OS was out for years and years and was really successful, all things considered. Sure, it wasn’t as ubiquitous as iOS or Android now, but it obviously filled a niche for a large enough number of people that it stuck around and pioneered that market. I had a Kyocera 6035 Palm “smartphone” over half a decade before the iPhone came out, and the Handspr…

My hope is that the Vision Pro is like the Apple Watch. It launched without a clear idea of why people would buy it--originally Apple tried to sell their bland aluminum box as a fashion accessory--and it was only after multiple iterations that they found out health and fitness was the main appeal and focused on it. If they pay attention to how people do use VR headsets, maybe they can do that again.

Yeah, that’s another good comparison.

The Palm equivalent in that comparison would be Fitbit and possibly Pebble. Apple waited until there was a proven market in wearables, then figured out how to combine that market with the strengths of their existing ecosystem to improve upon value. Then they propped up the model line with $$$ until they actually became good enough for people to buy.

I’m relatively optimistic they can do that here too, but that device needs to have a model that does everything it does today (well, maybe not the creepy visor eyes) and more for less than $1000 and at about 2/3 the weight max, before I think AW-like adoption will possibly happen.

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