Live data from Hacker News

The journey of an internet packet: Exploring networks with traceroute

sebastianmarines.com

111–116 of 116 posts

Re: The journey of an internet packet: Exploring networks with traceroute

#111
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're reading the connotation into this. In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with being a higher level engineer. There's plenty of work "above the fold" so to speak. For example, I think it behooves every software engineer to have a general grasp of how CPUs work, what speculative execution is, how CPU caching and invalidation works, etc, but the average webdev doesn't really need to know this, and might r…

> I think you're reading the connotation into this. I am reading the connotation into this and asking about it. 4 paragraphs of talking only about tech and then it diverged into a personal statement at the end.

What I meant by that statement is that whatever you're asking about is actually coming from you. I don't think the simple statement in the comment actually contains any connotation. Just like the old programmer joke - there are 10 kinds of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who do not. We just like dividing people into classes because it helps us understand the world.

I guess to engage with this a bit more, one reason you might find a negative connotation towards engineers who are ignorant of the underlying details is that it is the larger set. After all, most engineers do not need to understand the physical layer in depth, so there are fewer who do. People love to feel like they're part of a smaller "higher" class, for complex social reasons. This sometimes comes with a bit of a distaste towards those who are part of the "regular" class.

But overall, I think you're taking this further than it really needs to be taken. The GP was just saying that not all network engineers are wizards in the technical details of lower layers, just like not all software engineers can write a compiler. Does that make them "worse" in some way? Well it makes them a worse fit for that few specific jobs that require that extra knowledge, but in general, I don't think so, and I doubt most people do either.

That's why we have abstractions.

Re: The journey of an internet packet: Exploring networks with traceroute

#114
post #101
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Traceroute doesn't even show you a path. It shows you a bunch of devices that happened to have a packet when its TTL expired. Every item listed in traceroute's output is a different packet and can take a different path towards the destination. On a different subject, why are people writing blogs about topics that are in the "literature" already?

Hey! What literature would you recommend for learning more about this stuff (routing, firewalls, etc)? I'm learning as I'm going and my goal is to come up with a way to build secure/beyondcorp/zerotrust-style networks using only existing tools and established tech, unless absolutely necessary. Tools I'm using include wireguard, iptables, nftables, nginx, ping, traceroute, and nmap. Which articles, books, authors, or…

Related threads with recs:

Ask HN: Good book to learn modern networking? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38918418 - Jan 2024

Ask HN: Best Books for Modern Computer Networks - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39501933 - Feb 2024

Ask HN: What is a good book to learn about the network stack? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18506651 - Nov 2018

Re: The journey of an internet packet: Exploring networks with traceroute

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> your packets go over us for at least something I'm in South East Asia -- are you sure?

I think he meant “us” as ISPs in general.

No I think he/she was referring to his/her "big ISP".

It's very likely my packets don't go through it.

Re: The journey of an internet packet: Exploring networks with traceroute

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this article is informative but misleading. i do the testing at a big ISP (your packets go over us for at least something). we test traceroute. we complain to vendors when traceroute doesn't work right. we do investigate weird traceroutes.

> your packets go over us for at least something I'm in South East Asia -- are you sure?

its not just about what you're connected to, but what the other side is and how the things work out to get it in between. SE asia is an important area for some large ISPs.
Post reply on HN