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Epic Games Store and Fortnite Arrive on EU iPhones

arstechnica.com

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Re: Epic Games Store and Fortnite Arrive on EU iPhones

#111

Post by dns_snek »

threeseed wrote: post #66
pavlov wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re still iOS apps executed in the same sandbox and notarized by Apple. It’s not like they can suddenly read more data from your device just because you downloaded the binary from Epic’s S3 bucket instead of Apple’s S3 bucket. Of course Apple would like you to have a vague feeling of fear, uncertainty and doubt about third party distribution. The truth is that the only extra layer of defense provided by Apple’s A…

This is not true. The sandbox does not prevent iOS apps from accessing private APIs and accessing data from the OS that wouldn't be available typically. And after all these years there is still no way to curtail the power of Objective-C dynamic dispatch. It is one of the main things that the App Store process checks for.

> The sandbox does not prevent iOS apps from accessing private APIs and accessing data from the OS that wouldn't be available typically.

That sounds like a critical failure of the iOS security model that would make me uneasy about using their OS. A security issue like this needs be addressed through technical means, not by a fallible manual review process.

As things stand, it's just a fear-mongering excuse they can throw in front of clueless legislators/regulators to help them maintain a stranglehold on app distribution.

Re: Epic Games Store and Fortnite Arrive on EU iPhones

#112

Post by brigadier132 »

nottorp wrote: post #106
brigadier132 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not just uBlock origin, we can get browsers that are not webkit. WebKit is crippled and always behind in standards implementations.

> we can get browsers that are not webkit That's good for how to call it, diversity, yes. > WebKit is crippled and always behind in standards implementations. I would cry a river except the standards you're mentioning are mostly made to benefit Google. At best we'll get a duopoly instead of a monopoly, like we have with the actual phone operating systems.

It's crippled in ways beyond standards implementations. WebKit can't use more than 500mb per tab in iOs and third party browsers are not allowed to use full screen mode. This is to prevent actual web apps from being viable.

> I would cry a river except the standards you're mentioning are mostly made to benefit Google

This mindset makes 0 sense. Yes, things like http/3 and webtransport benefit google, but it also benefits literally everyone else not named Apple.

Re: Epic Games Store and Fortnite Arrive on EU iPhones

#113

Post by miki123211 »

epolanski wrote: post #90
jeroenhd wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the one hand I agree that it's a bit silly that the messaging isn't clear. On the other hand, from my experience with Android installation, providing easy steps for end users who don't know what they're agreeing with leads to lots of malware and other nasty stuff. Android has recently started blocking users from granting some sensitive permissions to apps from settings dialogues spawned by the app itself for this…

I've never had a malware on Android like ever. Let alone you need to manually give permissions to everything.

> I've never had a malware on Android like ever.

Unfortunately, it's somewhat common among the less tech-savvy.

In countries where Android is more popular, a lot of scam callers call to tell you that your phone has a virus and to install their "special app", of course the special app needs to check that there's no virus hiding in the camera so it needs camera permissions, of course it's safe if it has made-by-the-police in the name. People who don't know how tech works absolutely fall for this.

Re: Epic Games Store and Fortnite Arrive on EU iPhones

#114

Post by jajko »

enricotal wrote: post #38

"Allow Markeplace from Epic Games" Wow.... This is a small step in installing an app, but a giant leap for digital freedom. I hope that non-UE citizens can achieve this goal by the end of the decade, not because it is easy, but because it is hard.

Its hard only because greedy corporation execs decided to milk its userbase dry, while giving them massive FU in the face coupled with a tasty spit. Technically, they already done it without breaking a sweat.

But amount of pass apple gets from mostly US folks even here on HN and elsewhere, despite all their intentional missteps and fuckups is staggering. Main reason for me to stay away from whole ecosystem, price wise they are just in upper middle tier, functionality wise it depends what you need/expect - from great to pretty much horrible proposition. If google would be chinese corp I would get it when crowds get into us-vs-them mindset, but this fanatism has no base in reality, its more like blind political support of candidate X despite massive character flaws, just because you already invested yourself heavily in given party direction for topic Y.

They will keep doing it exactly and only to the point when users will start voting with their wallets, hoping for some apple moral auto-correction is a pipe dream with some serious stuff in that pipe. Or leave it up to regulators with some morals, but I struggle to imagine this working anywhere else outside of EU, and I am not positive about the future change (hoping to be wrong of course). Until apple does something both nasty and visible, they will continue to be uncritically celebrated.

Re: Epic Games Store and Fortnite Arrive on EU iPhones

#115

Post by miki123211 »

ben_w wrote: post #58
pavlov wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re still iOS apps executed in the same sandbox and notarized by Apple. It’s not like they can suddenly read more data from your device just because you downloaded the binary from Epic’s S3 bucket instead of Apple’s S3 bucket. Of course Apple would like you to have a vague feeling of fear, uncertainty and doubt about third party distribution. The truth is that the only extra layer of defense provided by Apple’s A…

The ease with which Apple's rules may be circumvented is situation-specific, e.g. Facebook ran an ad campaign to protest against Apple enforcing privacy rules which (to my not legally trained eye) seem to have already been a legal requirement for app developers in several jurisdictions before Apple made it also a contractual obligation: https://news.law.fordham.edu/jcfl/2021/03/29/the-privacy-war... So, for Meta, in…

Unlike the developer agreement, the law didn't require the consent pop up to have any specific wording, and the wording that Apple requires is far scarier than it should be.

Re: Epic Games Store and Fortnite Arrive on EU iPhones

#116

Post by dns_snek »

nottorp wrote: post #13
regnerba wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question: if it’s so important to you why use an iPhone? Not trying to be sarcastic or negative, really just curious.

Because the only competition is Android. Apple is the least bad choice if we're talking quality of the user experience. Don't bother comparing specs on paper, use both. And that's even before we take into account that Android is run by an advertising company. Can't decide if it's sad or funny that Epic's greed clashed with Apple's greed and they ended up getting EU users a bit more freedom to decide what's run on the…

> Can't decide if it's sad or funny that Epic's greed clashed with Apple's greed

I think it's amusing, it's extremely rare for incentives of a big corporation to align with ours to the point where they'd go to war against giants like Apple.

Epic is equally bad in other areas but I'm glad they fought for this.

Re: Epic Games Store and Fortnite Arrive on EU iPhones

#117

Post by nottorp »

brigadier132 wrote: post #112
nottorp wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we can get browsers that are not webkit That's good for how to call it, diversity, yes. > WebKit is crippled and always behind in standards implementations. I would cry a river except the standards you're mentioning are mostly made to benefit Google. At best we'll get a duopoly instead of a monopoly, like we have with the actual phone operating systems.

It's crippled in ways beyond standards implementations. WebKit can't use more than 500mb per tab in iOs and third party browsers are not allowed to use full screen mode. This is to prevent actual web apps from being viable. > I would cry a river except the standards you're mentioning are mostly made to benefit Google This mindset makes 0 sense. Yes, things like http/3 and webtransport benefit google, but it also bene…

> WebKit can't use more than 500mb per tab in iOs

SO MUCH? Do I look like i can afford infinite ram?

> benefits literally everyone else not named Apple.

No, it seems to me it benefits javascript app developers in addition to Google. I see zero benefit for the users.

Re: Epic Games Store and Fortnite Arrive on EU iPhones

#118

Post by nottorp »

stavros wrote: post #97
nottorp wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You change your phone every year? Because I have this Android phone sitting on my desk for development. When I bought it it was almost as responsive as iPhones (and much cheaper). 4 years later the UI is a lagfest [1]. Meanwhile, my iPhone XS is over 5 years old and almost as responsive as on day one. And I have major version OS updates to blame for the "almost", while the Android one got one major update and was lag…

It's about how many apps you install, my phones get laggy as well, but when I format them they're back to being as responsive as day 1.

It's a development phone. It has whatever I run on it through adb, a few nfc and bluetooth test apps and that's all.

Re: Epic Games Store and Fortnite Arrive on EU iPhones

#119

Post by illiac786 »

jeroenhd wrote: post #74
flohofwoe wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bizarre how the scare popup doesn't have a button to immediately go to the right place in Settings (or even just enable the feature right there). Typical Apple though. It's the same mess on macOS to allow running software installed from the web.

On the one hand I agree that it's a bit silly that the messaging isn't clear. On the other hand, from my experience with Android installation, providing easy steps for end users who don't know what they're agreeing with leads to lots of malware and other nasty stuff. Android has recently started blocking users from granting some sensitive permissions to apps from settings dialogues spawned by the app itself for this…

The problem here (in the malware case) is that the user is not reading or understanding the warnings. Making it harder for the user to do what he wants is not the right solution, apple should focus on making sure the user knows what he wants: the warning should be clearer or more explicit. Otherwise apple is penalising everyone that knows what they’re doing, it makes gamers angry, it’s just a bad look.

Re: Epic Games Store and Fortnite Arrive on EU iPhones

#120

Post by stavros »

nottorp wrote: post #118
stavros wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's about how many apps you install, my phones get laggy as well, but when I format them they're back to being as responsive as day 1.

It's a development phone. It has whatever I run on it through adb, a few nfc and bluetooth test apps and that's all.

Hm, and it got laggy? Is it running out of space?
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