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Apple is America's semiconductor problem

semiconductor-digest.com

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Re: Apple is America's semiconductor problem

#111

Post by BenFranklin100 »

BenFranklin100 wrote: post #94
p1necone wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine sales numbers and profits are publicly available information, whereas actual # of units produced is likely not an easy number to find?

Given Android has 71% of the worldwide market share it’s difficult to make the argument Apple holds a monopoly on the smartphone market [1]. Even in the US, until about 2020, Android had a higher subscriber base, and there is no reason the situation could not reverse and iOS drop below its July 2023 53% subscriber market share [2]. Moreover, give iPhones are significantly more expensive than comparable Android phones…

As a tagalong to my comment, I really wish Android phone makers would get their act together and give Apple better competition. If the trends of the last ten years hold up, iPhones might actually become a monopoly product at some point. ;)

Re: Apple is America's semiconductor problem

#112

Post by necovek »

vundercind wrote: post #37
duxup wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple has such a large marketing clout I think their products are genuinely competitive. It's not just marketing.

I was a Windows and Linux user for nearly two decades before really giving Mac an shot, and still engage regularly with both. My first smartphones were Android. I’ve done tons of development work on both the iOS and Android platforms, and been exposed to a mountain of devices from both. As far as I’m concerned nobody’s even trying to compete with Apple. There are other personal computing products but none of them add…

That's a weird look. What is that market segment nobody is even trying to compete in?

Integrated ecosystem is something a number of players have tried and failed at, as they simply don't have the resources to build it up and sustain it until they are competitive.

Apple has started small too: tiny little iPods with iTunes + digital content sales really put them back on the map, before they scored a hit with iPhone which was an iPod touch with a modem. They have been riding the iPhone wave since, gobbling up money with iPhone and iPad manufacture and app sales, which allowed them to expand to SoC production for laptops too, which is what got them back on the PC (as in "personal computer") map too.

Re: Apple is America's semiconductor problem

#113

Post by limpbizkitfan »

FrankWilhoit wrote: post #40

Two hundred years ago, it was understood that national borders were things that neither persons, nor goods, nor money, nor information should routinely cross. That understanding was correct and necessary, and must perforce be regained, after who knows what further unnecessary harm has been done.

To stupid people, a border is some sacred impenetrable wall. To most of us, it’s just another line.

Re: Apple is America's semiconductor problem

#114

Post by rbanffy »

jocaal wrote: post #61
duxup wrote: post #32

I have zero doubt Apple's influence is considerable and maybe monopolistic or something like that in a number of ways. But I find an article that doesn't even address any other companies a little hard to swallow. Are other companies simply not able to "reshore" chip fabs? I have no idea what some of the tidbits thrown in about the apple watch has anything to do with the topic. Let alone some of the heavy handed lines…

> But I find an article that doesn't even address any other companies a little hard to swallow. Are other companies simply not able to "reshore" chip fabs? I urge you to look at the earnings of some of the most popular chip manufacturers and then look at the earnings of apple (also ignore nvidia as it is an obvious outlier). Creating a modern chip fab takes A LOT of money and is simply impossible when some of the mos…

> Also it would be quite scary if apple is allowed that type of vertical integration.

Why would that be? It’d free up TSMC’s top shelf capacity to other manufacturers.

Re: Apple is America's semiconductor problem

#115

Post by rbanffy »

kergonath wrote: post #88
daft_pink wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. I feel the quality of the article leaves something to be desired knowing that semiconductors are purchased by so many different players. Feels like a hit piece.

> Feels like a hit piece. The title tends to give this impression, to be honest.

The content kind of seals the deal. It is a hit piece.

Re: Apple is America's semiconductor problem

#116

Post by causal »

necovek wrote: post #73
causal wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I'm a little confused by the premise. How would reshoring chip production be easier if Apple weren't out there buying chips? I get that they are buying up all of the TSMC chips in some segments. Doesn't that just create demand for an alternative? I can't cohere the themes of this article.

The point there seems to be that Apple is pretending to invest and align with moving production to US, but it's really gobbling up the entire foreign production and not at all interested in the "patriotic" narrative, even if they are marketing themselves as such. Basically, it's mostly: Apple is lying with their marketing, here's what proves they really don't care about moving production to US, but only about price a…

That much seems easy to believe, I just find it hard to connect that to an obstacle for domestic chip production

Re: Apple is America's semiconductor problem

#117

Post by rbanffy »

windexh8er wrote: post #97
causal wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I'm a little confused by the premise. How would reshoring chip production be easier if Apple weren't out there buying chips? I get that they are buying up all of the TSMC chips in some segments. Doesn't that just create demand for an alternative? I can't cohere the themes of this article.

It's not just TSMC chips. Apple forces other chip manufacturers into exclusive deals to lock out the ability for 3rd party repair to be done cost effectively and reliably. Apple shouldn't be able to control the chip markets as they do. As indicated in the article they create slave labor conditions in a lot of these manufacturers because they're wholly dependent on Apple's whims. This also creates an e-waste problem g…

> Apple inhibits the ability to more easily repair their hardware.

This is why we need right-to-repair legislation with teeth.

Re: Apple is America's semiconductor problem

#118

Post by kergonath »

FrankWilhoit wrote: post #40

Two hundred years ago, it was understood that national borders were things that neither persons, nor goods, nor money, nor information should routinely cross. That understanding was correct and necessary, and must perforce be regained, after who knows what further unnecessary harm has been done.

You would need to provide far more than that. What are you alluding to? 200 years ago was the development of the nation-state as a concept. Borders were completely porous; the technology to close them effectively was more about 100 years in the future.

Also, 200 years ago was the development of colonial empires, which is pretty much the opposite of what you say.

Re: Apple is America's semiconductor problem

#119

Post by freedomben »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #70
tstrimple wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a bunch of nonsense. I don't buy Apple products because someone might make fun of me if I don't. It's because they are best in class and integrate so much better than any competing offering.

Good for you. That doesn't change the impression that many of us have when we see relatives and friends who buy Apple products yet have low incomes. I'm pretty confident they aren't doing it because of any technical superiority and they certainly aren't doing it because the devices last since they upgrade every couple of years. > integrate so much better Integrate with what?

> Integrate with what?

with other Apple products of course!

Re: Apple is America's semiconductor problem

#120

Post by Jtsummers »

rbanffy wrote: post #114
jocaal wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I find an article that doesn't even address any other companies a little hard to swallow. Are other companies simply not able to "reshore" chip fabs? I urge you to look at the earnings of some of the most popular chip manufacturers and then look at the earnings of apple (also ignore nvidia as it is an obvious outlier). Creating a modern chip fab takes A LOT of money and is simply impossible when some of the mos…

> Also it would be quite scary if apple is allowed that type of vertical integration. Why would that be? It’d free up TSMC’s top shelf capacity to other manufacturers.

It would also mean that Apple built a facility that will be outdated in 1-3 years. They'd end up falling behind and have to go back to TSMC or someone else to supply components or invest billions every year to build out improved fabrication facilities.

Certain kinds of vertical integration can last, but when a key part is a moving target (fab capabilities) or commodified then they are inherently time limited assuming any kind of competition (and there is plenty of competition in the PC and phone markets still).

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