Developing heuristics to categorize patterns and internalize concepts != memorization. If anything, it is the opposite of memorization.
Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?
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Re: Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?
#112"Repetitio est mater studiorum" - repetition is the mother of learning. My creative writing professor, of all people, used to repeat this three times before every class. He was my favorite teacher at any level.
My Arabic teacher liked to say "التكرار يعلّم الحمار" which rhymes and says "Repetition teaches the donkey"
Not the most flattering of proverbs, but it stuck with me.
Re: Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thanks for reading and the response! One of the points I'm trying to make is that taste and elegance fundamentally stem from an internalized heuristic -- which at it's core is memorization. I understand the connotation of "memorization" evokes an image of blindly memorizing without connecting, but isn't the tastefully developed expertise just memorization of a better heuristic?
I don't think I can agree, as an extremely creative person with extremely bad memory - to a point where I pretty much never memorize anything , whether intentionally or by accident. What I find instead, is that by just processing novel information, especially if I focus on analysing it, my brain internalizes insights and builds model of that type of thing, allowing me to either imperfectly reconstruct what I've seen,…
Yes! Creativity often happens when you try to reconstruct something you failed to memorize, but succeed at making something else.
Re: Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?
#114Wow, what a load of rubbish. I hate this kind of reductive, formulaic view of creativity. I think true creativity expands what is possible – so some kind of awareness of the current state of things is important, but rote memorisation has no real part in it.
The idea that memorisation leads to creativity is actually very misleading - especially the assumption that what you are learning is 'true'. It just means you are more aware of the restrictions and existing work in a field - often the most exciting work comes from the excitement and slight naivety of exploring something new - 'beginner's mind'. Kids are very creative, partly because their model of the world is not fully established.
Re: Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
"What I find instead, is that by just processing novel information, especially if I focus on analysing it, my brain internalizes insights and builds model of that type of thing" Sorry, but this is memoization.
I feel like every reply making a point against memorisation would benefit from having their definition of what is memorization, because every single one of those replies sound like they're still implicitly describing some sort of memorization as the better way
Exactly, everyone here is just describing different forms of memorization
Re: Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?
#116The most striking comment was this:
> Growing up with Indian parents in California, I was exposed to both. My mom would write daily Kumon sheets out by hand for me to do, and teach me from Indian textbooks from the same grade (which were much more advanced than the US equivalents). The result was me breezing through the US school system without much thought.
Ukrainian refugees I know are finding the same things in the UK school system, where the maths is much less advanced. Philippines schools, meanwhile, have better discipline and more motivated students.
I conclude that Western public education is in a bad state, and this is a source of chronic social weakness.
Re: Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?
#117I was the sort of person who did not believe in memorisation as a solution for anything. Then I tried getting really good at spaced repetition for a year (yes, it is a skill that needs to be trained for good results) and I've completely changed my mind. Spaced repetition allows me to become proficient even in things I don't get the natural opportunity to practise daily, so that when the day comes and I need them, I h…
You're always memorizing something at some level, even in math where you can derive so much after memorizing some core concepts and deductions.
Math proof and derivations are a bit like remembering a walking route. You've seen the start and end, and the main turns taken, and there's also a general "walking" skill you need.
Re: Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?
#118I genuinely thought creativity was something else until LLMs hit escape velocity and humbled me hard. After that I realized that creativity wasn't some magical quality that would be hard to reproduce mechanically. And that also made me a little sad.
But LLMs to date can't really differentiate well between a creative insightful answer, and a nonsensical one. The selection process is still done by a human.
Re: Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?
#119This seems to resonate with my experience, although I feel myself bristling due to the baggage of the word memorization. Although sometimes “memorization” doesn’t happen because you sit down to do it but rather that you keep using the same things over and over when solving problems that they become internalized. I find that to be a more fruitful path towards understanding that I don’t want to call memorization but it…
Maybe you should first try to separate the negative feelings you have towards the word "memorization" and the word itself "memorization". There's nothing bad about memorization. This sort of negative bias about inconsequential things is something that can easily hold us back from things that could help us further ourselves.
Tell me about it. Trying to get better every day.
Re: Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thanks for reading and the response! One of the points I'm trying to make is that taste and elegance fundamentally stem from an internalized heuristic -- which at it's core is memorization. I understand the connotation of "memorization" evokes an image of blindly memorizing without connecting, but isn't the tastefully developed expertise just memorization of a better heuristic?
I don't think I can agree, as an extremely creative person with extremely bad memory - to a point where I pretty much never memorize anything , whether intentionally or by accident. What I find instead, is that by just processing novel information, especially if I focus on analysing it, my brain internalizes insights and builds model of that type of thing, allowing me to either imperfectly reconstruct what I've seen,…
I think we have a problem of semantics here. Your notion of "the brain internalizes insights" is very close to what the author means as memorizing patterns. They even gäbe a few examples where they started with rote memorizations, which were not that useful at first, but eventually a pattern, an insight if you will, emerged.