10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023 • Hacker News Board

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#111

Post by joecool1029 » Sat, Jul 20, 2024, 8:37 PM UTC

luckylion wrote: post #94

joecool1029 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but if that were true people would not leave would they? Not to dig into whataboutism but the same could really be said about the US's island possessions: https://www.civilbeat.org/2021/10/census-pacific-us-territor... Fact is populations will leave if they see chance at a better life elsewhere, even if they aren't living in an active warzone or under some some government the US doesn't like.

10y vs 1y, internal migration vs moving to a different country with a different language. It's really not comparable.

> moving to a different country with a different language.

The US doesn't have an official language, there are areas that speak almost exclusively spanish. All government shit is available in spanish. Puerto Rico speaks spanish. Over a fifth of Floridians speak spanish at home.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#112

Post by zdragnar » Sat, Jul 20, 2024, 8:40 PM UTC

joshlemer wrote: post #67

zdragnar wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's really underselling the political persecution that many have suffered in Cuba. It's far and away from just wanting reparations for land grabs. We have sanctions on Cuba for the same reason we have sanctions on Russia and Venezuela now- we don't want to fund what their government is doing, and allying with them gives us little to nothing in return. That said, it's pretty obvious that economic sanctions…

It may not in the short or medium term cause regime change, but sufficiently large sanctions on a country do stop it from growing in influence, wealth and power. Eventually, after some number of generations, Cuba could be so poor in comparison to the rising tide of the rest of the world, that it's not even able to defend itself or maintain government control. At some point, the disparity in power becomes overwhelming…

The problem is that not enough nations are participating in the sanctions. Multiple generations should have been plenty of time, especially given the harms done to the population in the interim.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#113

Post by bawolff » Sat, Jul 20, 2024, 8:40 PM UTC

basisword wrote: post #53

It's interesting reading the opinions in the comments on this thread. As a non-US person, I don't have a strong opinion on Cuba. I'd like to visit someday but don't know much about it other than the headlines. Reading the comments here it sounds like a pariah state on the level of North Korea. With 1m people leaving in a year, it clearly has its issues - but lots of the comments here are a good example of how your co…

As a canadian its pretty weird. Normally we get all the same media as usa and have relatively similar opinions. However cuba has always been much more popular here and is a common tourist destination. Its sad they are having problems.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#114

Post by throw__away7391 » Sat, Jul 20, 2024, 8:41 PM UTC

fjdjshsh wrote: post #92

energy123 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US should oppose expansionist dictatorships that attempt to alter the status quo via forceful revisionism. That's Russia in Ukraine and China in Asia. I don't see how opposing Cuba achieves anything in the US interests.

I keep seeing this "expansionist dictatorship" applied to China when the USA is discussed. The USA has invaded plenty of countries in the last few decades, has a history of colonialism (Cuba, Philippines, Puerto Rico...sure, less than some European countries, but still). Which countries has China invaded in the past few decades?

> Which countries has China invaded in the past few decades?

Well, all of their neighbors for starters.

If we include sending warships to violate maritime sovereignty under that definition, we can add dozens more in Asia and South America.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#115

Post by ithkuil » Sat, Jul 20, 2024, 8:41 PM UTC

hobotime wrote: post #97

mbrubeck wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has by far the world’s largest ex-Cuban population (well over 1M people). Those communities are a big part of what shapes US perceptions and policy toward Cuba.

Cuban-Americans telling us what Cuba is like sounds ok to me. From what I've heard, they hate Socialists.

How much is that a selection bias (they are the ones that left and went to the US after all)

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#116

Post by joecool1029 » Sat, Jul 20, 2024, 8:42 PM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #104

SR2Z wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The title of the article is literally that 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023. Are they Batista supporters too?

Cubans leaving Cuba today are taking advantage of immigration openness that anti-Cuba policies pushed for. Why would they not take advantage of that? They are literally the only refugees who can come to America and get automatic asylum. Why does that exist? Political power from Florida stemming from Batista supporters. I don’t have any interest in this argument, but the situation between America and Cuba is fairly ar…

> Political power from Florida stemming from Batista supporters.

Last I heard Batista's daughter is homeless, support doesn't look so great lol: https://www.local10.com/news/2017/06/21/ex-cuban-leader-fulg...

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#117

Post by bawolff » Sat, Jul 20, 2024, 8:42 PM UTC

fdsafdsafdsfsd wrote: post #85

basisword wrote: post #53

It's interesting reading the opinions in the comments on this thread. As a non-US person, I don't have a strong opinion on Cuba. I'd like to visit someday but don't know much about it other than the headlines. Reading the comments here it sounds like a pariah state on the level of North Korea. With 1m people leaving in a year, it clearly has its issues - but lots of the comments here are a good example of how your co…

Maybe ask the Cubans who left the country?

People who leave a country tend to leave it for a reason. If they liked their life in Cuba presumably they would have stayed. They are probably not a neutral source on Cuba.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#118

Post by Quarrel » Sat, Jul 20, 2024, 8:45 PM UTC

bee_rider wrote: post #84

vundercind wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bunch of Floridians who are, or are descended from, folks who had their land and businesses seized during the revolution are holding grudges and won’t let go of them until they’re given their stuff back or a ton of money, which, this far on, isn’t happening. Florida is important in Presidential elections. US elections are structured such that dumb stuff like a relatively small—but loud—and also hopeless interest in…

Florida was relevant in US elections. When was the last time it was up for grabs? It is actually interesting, a state converting to single-party rule significantly reduces the electoral leverage it has.

> When was the last time it was up for grabs?

Obama won it in 2012.

That isn't that long ago in electoral cycles.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#119

Post by vundercind » Sat, Jul 20, 2024, 8:46 PM UTC

bee_rider wrote: post #84

vundercind wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bunch of Floridians who are, or are descended from, folks who had their land and businesses seized during the revolution are holding grudges and won’t let go of them until they’re given their stuff back or a ton of money, which, this far on, isn’t happening. Florida is important in Presidential elections. US elections are structured such that dumb stuff like a relatively small—but loud—and also hopeless interest in…

Florida was relevant in US elections. When was the last time it was up for grabs? It is actually interesting, a state converting to single-party rule significantly reduces the electoral leverage it has.

Obama did start warming relations, probably due to that shift. Trump reversed it. I expect it’ll continue to, at best, see-saw until Republicans are comfortable enough with their advantage in Florida to ignore the Cuban vote.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#120

Post by bawolff » Sat, Jul 20, 2024, 8:47 PM UTC

WorkerBee28474 wrote: post #109

tehjoker wrote: post #91

Cuba's economy is not doing well because of the illegitimate and illegal US embargo. End the blockade. Take Cuba off the completely farcical State Sponsors of Terror list. Let Cuba live! Cuba developed its own COVID vaccine but couldn't give it to its own people because they could not buy metal for syringes. Its fucking crazy.

> illegitimate and illegal US embargo Illegitimate and illegal according to what authority? Unless you believe in God, there is no higher authority than the US government and its military might.

International law?

That said, i don't think sanctions violate intl law. You are under no obligation to trade with people you dont like. A blockade probably would be (generally blockades are an act of war which is only allowed in defense or if un security council approves) however america isnt blockading it.

Things can morally wrong without being illegal.