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Tokyo's oldest train line – in pictures

theguardian.com

111–120 of 128 posts

Re: Tokyo's oldest train line – in pictures

#111
post #2

If you've ever stayed in the heart of Tokyo you know the JR Yamanote line well. What a feat for Japan to have it. I always thought trains (light rail, high speed, what ever) were so much better than cars. Have more traffic? Just add more trains, no extra rails needed. Yamanote line rush hour showed me how effective that is AND how you might need more rail eventually. Rush hour had a train there every ~2 minutes and t…

It's a fun experience just being in the absolutely packed rush hour Tokyo trains. Although I don't have to worry about claustrophobia since I'm 6'3 tall and I'm able to look out above the heads of everybody else.

A unique window into Japanese culture.

Re: Tokyo's oldest train line – in pictures

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a fun experience just being in the absolutely packed rush hour Tokyo trains. Although I don't have to worry about claustrophobia since I'm 6'3 tall and I'm able to look out above the heads of everybody else.

Hmm, as a 6'2" person with claustrophobia issues, I'm quite certain my height makes it much worse!

Being able to look out over the heads of the crowd can help

Re: Tokyo's oldest train line – in pictures

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Rush hour had a train there every ~2 minutes and they were still packed. Sometimes I wonder if society will figure out a way to stagger business hours and holidays... somehow... to decongest rush hour. Something like X areacode business hours have to +/- 1 hour every other month.

The Netherlands has staggered school holidays: https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/schoolvakanties/ove... (in Dutch, but you should be able to understand the table if you know English)

How long has that been implemented? So how well does it work?

i.e. are plane prices cheaper with family vacation times staggered?

Re: Tokyo's oldest train line – in pictures

#115
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest I’m more surprised that this isn’t just how things are everywhere.

If only other cultures were afraid of being judged.

I think most other cultures just don't have any kind of drive to do one's best and excel.

Re: Tokyo's oldest train line – in pictures

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can't get better than 60-90s frequency per direction on a classic fully automated dual track line. Note that this is 40-60 trains per hour, and each Yamanote train holds 1724 people, giving a capacity of 69,000-100,000 passengers per hour per direction A highway lane operating at peak capacity can carry fewer than 2000 vehicles per hour. If each vehicle held typical passenger loading of 2 passengers (average oc…

Wow, I knew the difference was big, but not that big. This made me think, how does this all compare to bikes? I found one study [1] which finds ~6500 bikes per hour for a 2m wide cycling path. That's actually much closer to a highway lane than I expected. [1] https://fietsberaad.nl/CROWFietsberaad/media/Kennis/Bestande...

Bicycles aren't remotely as efficient as trains, which should be obvious really. Trains can carry a ton of people (literally, more like many, many tons! :-) ), at fairly high speed (talking about city trains/subways here, not bullet trains). At crowded times, people can be packed in quite densely, almost shoulder-to-shoulder. And this can all be done quite safely, with injuries and deaths astronomically uncommon if the train is operated and maintained properly.

Cycling has far less density, and far greater danger. It's easy to fall off a bike, or run into someone (pedestrian or cyclist), and it's even worse if there's cars around. Bikes are also quite slow compared to trains.

The advantages bikes have are:

1. flexibility: you can go most places by bicycle if the city doesn't hinder this too much by being too car-oriented. Trains only take you between far-apart stations, but a bike can take you the door of your destination. In places with good public transit and good bicycle support, it's very common for people to ride a bike to or from the train/subway station, and use the bicycle for the "last mile" instead of walking which is much slower.

2. small size: compared to cars, bikes take little space and so they don't need huge, wide roads, or even worse, giant parking lots. Here in Tokyo, lots of places have bicycle parking lots or garages, and it's staggering how many bicycles can fit into a space that only a handful of cars would be able to park in. And in places with no designated parking, it's common for people to just park their bike on the edge of the sidewalk, in a side alley, etc., things you can't do with a car.

So back to your 6500 bikes/hour figure: the problem with this kind of comparison is that it neglects parking. If everyone is driving in a car on a highway, they need a place to park, and putting parking for cars everywhere means everything must be spaced out much, much farther, which means everyone needs a car to get around. If no one has a car and everyone has a bicycle, then you don't need any car parking and bicycle parking takes very little space, so everything is now much closer together and you don't have to go nearly as far in the first place.

Of course, this doesn't even get into quality-of-life things like lack of pollution and noise, being able to actually see people's faces as you're out and about, etc.

Re: Tokyo's oldest train line – in pictures

#117

I was a little disappointed they didn’t include a picture of Tokyo Station in Chiyoda. The place is incredible – the original building is over 100 years old, the complex connects the Yamanote line with half a dozen other lines including Shinkansen that go across Japan, and the retail areas put many American airports to shame.

>the retail areas put many American airports to shame.

That's a very, very low bar. The retail areas in American airports are universally horrible, because they're all so ridiculously overpriced. I'm not sure whether it's some special airport tax or what, but the prices for anything inside an American airport are always horribly inflated compared to the exact same thing outside the airport. The only reason people eat anything there is because they're hungry and have no other choices.

By contrast, here in Japan, the shops and restaurants inside stations and airports are all competitively priced. Going to a restaurant in the train station is perfectly normal, and you're not going to get a better price just by leaving the station.

Re: Tokyo's oldest train line – in pictures

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, I knew the difference was big, but not that big. This made me think, how does this all compare to bikes? I found one study [1] which finds ~6500 bikes per hour for a 2m wide cycling path. That's actually much closer to a highway lane than I expected. [1] https://fietsberaad.nl/CROWFietsberaad/media/Kennis/Bestande...

Bicycles aren't remotely as efficient as trains, which should be obvious really. Trains can carry a ton of people (literally, more like many, many tons! :-) ), at fairly high speed (talking about city trains/subways here, not bullet trains). At crowded times, people can be packed in quite densely, almost shoulder-to-shoulder. And this can all be done quite safely, with injuries and deaths astronomically uncommon if t…

Don't forget 3. Affordability!

Even a $1000 bike would pay itself off within a year versus train fares and it is possible to buy a reasonable used commuter bicycle for hundreds less than that. Cycling is def the most affordable form of transportation out there (aside from walking of course).

Re: Tokyo's oldest train line – in pictures

#119
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This issue was compounded by the death of streetcar lines across America, being replaced with buses. In Tokyo some of these streetcar lines evolved into subway and train lines. For example, the stretch of the modern Tokyu Den-en-Toshi Line that goes from Shibuya to Futakotamagawa (where Rakuten’s global headquarters are located) replaced the old Tokyu Tamagawa Line, which was a streetcar line. In an alternate univers…

One major difference is that the streetcar companies in the US sold the land whereas Japanese companies held on to the choicest parcels to self-develop. This meant that 50 years later when everything was at end of life, the streetcar companies could not repeat the trick.

Yep! It was a pretty scammy system.

In NA effectively the streetcars were a scheme to sell real estate, with the streetcar being the sweetener to convince people to buy into the neighbourhood.

Once sales were over the streetcar was then a pointless drag on profits. No surprise unscrupulous business persons cut back on maintenance and abandoned the "unprofitable" streetcars.

Re: Tokyo's oldest train line – in pictures

#120
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure there are alternatives since mass transit has been around since before phones. The belief that the only option is to stare at a screen is a little bit depressing actually. I am not saying I do not do similar things, what struck me was that most people did not seem to have any awareness of what was going on around them. I would observe people on the train and not once did anyone look up. I guess the world out…

>I'm sure there are alternatives since mass transit has been around since before phones. Japanese novels are sold in small, pocket sized volumes because this was the only way to properly read on the packed trains before the smartphone replaced them all. If you were on a train with a lot more students, you'd notice a lot of them studying with similarly small volumes. >what struck me was that most people did not seem t…

>Or if you're sitting down, you will most likely be staring at someone's pelvic area because the convention is to stand FACING the chair in front of you if you're standing in the middle of the car (I still find this so strange but oh well so goes convention).

I don't know exactly why the convention is this way, but imagine if it was the reverse: you'd have someone's butt in your face, and if they fart...

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