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Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

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Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#111

Post by motohagiography »

for businesses with slim margins, card and processing fees above whole percentage points are basically a private tax. the problem with cashlessness (and over-regulation and surveillance in general) is it mainly punishes normal people for a lack of enthusiasm in their compliance while ignoring (therefore rewarding) the total scofflaws. the economic and cultural effects of this are negative for everyone outside the funded or socialized sector.

the loss of legit businesses has come up in backyard conversations for years about how many of the neighbourhood retail storefront businesses are just money laundering fronts. it drives up rents for legit businesses, discourages entrepreneurialism, and turns highstreets into homogenous globalized airport strip malls without local character. the dominance of laundering and other criminal activity is the direct effect of over regulation that sets high compliance bars for any new business, and so entrepreneurs (mainly 1st gen immigrants) switch away from the legit economy into grey and black markets to survive, while legit ones are forced out.

black markets need prohibition and arbitrary regulation to exist, and all of canada's regulatory nonsense is exclusively creating conditions for those markets. the cities are starting to resemble 3rd world economies where political parties fund themselves through kickbacks from tolerating the black markets created by their own absurd policies, while preying on anyone trying to make their own way.

the solution is to roll back the regulatory culture to let new legit businesses have their natural advantage on criminal ones. any further moves toward cashlessness only empower the black market.

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#112

Post by _DeadFred_ »

smarm52 wrote: post #103

The comments and the article don't mention the positives of "cash"; Physical currency. And really, it's more trouble than it's worth. The number one benefit of going full cashless is just controlling inflation. It's MUCH easier to regulate supply if the supply isn't physical. Also it's expensive to make and expensive to maintain for little real benefit. And to solve the problem of vulnerable people not having economi…

Weren't the Chinese playing with two types of virtual currency? One that goes down in value quickly over time? So you get paid 'savings' and 'spending cash'.

Government cards often have complex requirements associated with them, for example what can be purchased. Some of the older processing specs only allow for a small number of purchased item classifications to be passed. Under those as long as someone purchased 20 approved items they could purchase whatever they wanted after that because the spec allowed 20 item specific segments.

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#113

Post by adamiscool8 »

ryandrake wrote: post #102
adamiscool8 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A distinction without a difference. The ruling elite doesn't have to survey the population. They sandbagged the population into alignment with their own opinions, then strong-armed holdouts and specifically targeted them along every possible vector (social, legal, economic, etc.) for their adherence to wrong beliefs. I shudder at how much worse this could get in a fully cashless society.

So, everyone in the population of Canada who disagreed with the ruling elite's opinions was personally "strong-armed" and "targeted"? Or only a subset of them? If it was just a subset, could there have been anything that distinguished much of that subset apart from the rest of the people who weren't "targeted?" Maybe some event they took part in or helped?

Yes, everyone in all of Canada who disagreed with the ruling elite's opinions at the time saw themselves strong-armed and targeted by both legislation and vitriol from public officials. The greater the perceived threat to destabilizing belief in the elite opinion from any subset, the more severe the measures taken - as we saw, including unreasonable wartime actions to force compliance.

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#114

Post by stavros »

sofixa wrote: post #106
stavros wrote: post #16

I really hate paying by credit card (I don't like asking the bank for permission to spend my own money), but it's so convenient that I can't bring myself to carry cash any more. I have a really nice small wallet that I can store a few notes in, but I need a compartment for That's literally the entire reason I pay by card nowadays, I just don't like carrying coins.

This is the main reason why card/phone payments are taking over. It isn't some grand conspiracy by banks/shadowy cabals/governments - it's just much more practical than to pay with cash. Also the fact that it costs less to accept card payments only than deal with cash for small places (coffe shops and the like). The correct course of action here is government regulations ensuring an even playing field for payment pro…

How is an even playing field going to help with the fact that you need permission to spend your money?

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#115

Post by whitehexagon »

tail_exchange wrote: post #12

Just yesterday I went to a coffee shop that had a big sign saying they didn't accept cash. Seems to become more common as time passes.

My local coffee shop wont accept cards or digital payments, and they do it to help keep cash in society. We are too lazy with cards, but I guess it prevents another 'Northern Rock' style bank run, what's the point of rushing to take your cash out during the next financial crisis if you cant spend it. Already EUR cash transactions are limited to 1000. I often wonder how long before a bank account and smart phone become a legal requirement.

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#116

Post by akira2501 »

threeseed wrote: post #104
olalonde wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AML/KYC mostly.

No. We shouldn't make it easer for criminals to conduct terrorism, human trafficking, fraud etc just to make it slightly more economical for startups to compete with Visa/Mastercard.

When was the credit network used to finance terrorism? If we can't prevent terrorism then isn't it an advantage to have them move their funds on a network that can be completely traced and retroactively inspected? We'd prefer if terrorists use cash? Or we believe that if they can't use Amex it's impossible to use cash and therefore terrorism is defeated?

Also, when the startups compete with Visa/Mastercard, they provide that service to small businesses. So really, it's to make it massively more economical and easy for humans to start businesses that take credit.

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#118

Post by sbarre »

adamiscool8 wrote: post #105
sbarre wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol do you actually live in Ottawa? Calling downtown near the Parliament buildings "the most affluent areas around the nation's capital" is pretty hilarious.

Is it no longer the most expensive part of downtown? Obviously there are rich suburbs.

It has never been the expensive part.

The Glebe, Sandy Hill, Rockliffe, Island Park, etc.. All those parts of Ottawa's core have always been more afluent than the downtown by the Parliament.

The rise of new condos in that area has probably improved it somewhat in the last 10 years but it's still far from "afluent".

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#119

Post by akira2501 »

smarm52 wrote: post #103

The comments and the article don't mention the positives of "cash"; Physical currency. And really, it's more trouble than it's worth. The number one benefit of going full cashless is just controlling inflation. It's MUCH easier to regulate supply if the supply isn't physical. Also it's expensive to make and expensive to maintain for little real benefit. And to solve the problem of vulnerable people not having economi…

> The number one benefit of going full cashless is just controlling inflation. It's MUCH easier to regulate supply if the supply isn't physical.

To what extent is inflation influenced by the physical money supply? Isn't it just banks that control it at their discount window?

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#120

Post by veidelis »

ShakataGaNai wrote: post #61

This is happening in a lot of places, just a few days ago I went to a restaurant (California) that had a sign up front saying "We are now Cashless" and touting why this is better for the staff. https://imgur.com/a/uDA8E4A I predominately use credit for everything because its easier, faster, etc. But the 3% fees since time immemorial is screwed up. We need a better standard for payment that is digital but cash equival…

If I, for example, would have been a regular guest in that place and they would go cashless, I would politely let the owner know that I won't be visiting them until they accept cash payments again.
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