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Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

nytimes.com

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Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#111

Post by ok_dad »

WalterBright wrote: post #105
ok_dad wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many people do you think are in the military? It’s way below one percent in the USA. In the last war we fought, we lost barely any soldiers compared to the number deployed. It’s bad that we lost any, but your argument is logically null. Women aren’t just baby machines, in any case. Nothing is being “reversed” it’s just more equal if everyone is registered for selective service.

In WW1, so many French young men died in the battles that the average height of the French soldier declined by over an inch in WW2. It became popular for French and German women to marry old men and foreigners after both wars. By preserving the women, society can bounce back from a catastrophic loss of young men.

Luckily here in America we have hundreds of millions of men and women to give up to the altar of democracy, right? We’re not France in 1915 or 1939. Not only that, but maybe you want to consider more modern war’s attrition rates.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#112

Post by snakeyjake »

lawgimenez wrote: post #102
snakeyjake wrote: post #5

I was an infantryman in the Army for ten years, from 1998 to 2008, and deployed three times, twice to Iraq, Encounters with IEDs were common, especially during the surge. So many of my friends have died to suicide or have killed themselves due to drugs and/or alcohol that it is hard to keep track. Now that primadonna seals are dying maybe someone will pay attention. Thankfully the only lasting effects of my deploymen…

What made you think Seals are primadonnas? Does this apply to other special forces too?

They don't do anything without $40 billion of air assets circling their position providing cover and get pissy when you tell them they have to shave and can't paint their weapons arbitrary colors.

Also they're all on drugs and will kill you if you report them for embezzling unit funds.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#113

Post by AnarchismIsCool »

jrmg wrote: post #46

Artillery crew members who fired thousands of rounds in combat came home plagued by hallucinations and psychosis Could this problem also be affecting civilian gun enthusiasts? Or is the order of magnitude of the exposure just wildly lower compared to the military, even in the most enthusiastic?

Probably not unless you like .50 SBRs at indoor ranges, but always shoot suppressed just to be safe

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#114

Post by mikl »

WalterBright wrote: post #91
User23 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference between small arms and artillery is absolutely enormous. Handguns and rifles make loud popping noises. Exploding artillery shells are concussive bombs that produce brain rattling blasts.

In WW1, they called it "shell shock" for soldiers incapacitated without obvious injury. In WW2 it was called "battle fatigue", and now TBI. It seems the WW1 doctors got it right the first time.

Also, artillery has gotten bigger and boomier since then. If it was bad then, it’s likely worse now.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#115

Post by DoreenMichele »

jt2190 wrote: post #110
DoreenMichele wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Health problems are real problems. They're personal problems and can impact how your mind works. The quote says they frequently get psychiatric diagnoses but new research indicates it's brain damage, not something talk therapy will help. I'm saying the same thing: Suicidal people have real problems that need real solutions, not talk therapy or emotional encouragement.

Maybe I’m missing something here… is there a “real” solution that they should be getting instead? My impression is that there aren’t any remedies for brain injuries yet, that we’ve only just been able to detect them, but I’d love to hear that I’m wrong about this.

Anecdotally, I know of cases of improved neurological function from alternative remedies. No, I'm not aware of any vetted medical studies, new research etc.

I'm not really trying to say "Just give these people x drug, clearly!" I'm trying to make a broader point that people who are suicidal need some problem resolved.

Homeless people are frequently suicidal. They need housing, not to be dismissed as "crazy."

People with torturous medical problems are frequently suicidal. I'm pro right to die but I also would like to see the world take their problem seriously and not act like you are "crazy" to feel like your body is a prison, you just want the torment to end and to feel your only hope of escape is death.

Etc.

People who are suicidal are routinely dismissed as "crazy," like they don't have a real problem. This needs to stop.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#116

Post by TheCondor »

snakeyjake wrote: post #112
lawgimenez wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What made you think Seals are primadonnas? Does this apply to other special forces too?

They don't do anything without $40 billion of air assets circling their position providing cover and get pissy when you tell them they have to shave and can't paint their weapons arbitrary colors. Also they're all on drugs and will kill you if you report them for embezzling unit funds.

They take PEDs or street drugs?

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#117

Post by throwawayffffas »

jrmg wrote: post #46

Artillery crew members who fired thousands of rounds in combat came home plagued by hallucinations and psychosis Could this problem also be affecting civilian gun enthusiasts? Or is the order of magnitude of the exposure just wildly lower compared to the military, even in the most enthusiastic?

Unlikely, handguns produce significantly smaller shockwaves. Additionally the problems described in the article are a relatively new phenomenon related to the introduction of high explosive propellant cartridges, which small arms don't use.

Exposure to lead is a much larger risk for gun enthusiasts from my point of view.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#118

Post by throwawayffffas »

mikl wrote: post #114
WalterBright wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In WW1, they called it "shell shock" for soldiers incapacitated without obvious injury. In WW2 it was called "battle fatigue", and now TBI. It seems the WW1 doctors got it right the first time.

Also, artillery has gotten bigger and boomier since then. If it was bad then, it’s likely worse now.

Artillery has actually gotten smaller. Propellant charges have gotten "boomier" high explosive instead of smokeless propellants hence the traumatic brain injuries on the teams firing them.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#119

Post by mrslave »

TheCondor wrote: post #116
snakeyjake wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't do anything without $40 billion of air assets circling their position providing cover and get pissy when you tell them they have to shave and can't paint their weapons arbitrary colors. Also they're all on drugs and will kill you if you report them for embezzling unit funds.

They take PEDs or street drugs?

PEDs.

See the Kyle Mullen death during the SEAL entry testing[0] and subsequent policy to test for PEDs[1].

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32656856

[1] https://www.military.com/daily-news/2023/10/20/navy-seals-st...

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#120

Post by mathsmath »

DaoVeles wrote: post #88
mathsmath wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it depends on the shockwave. Maybe someone can math it out, but it’s like the sound leaf blower makes vs standing right next to a jet engine. I have never seen a shockwave on the ground behind a “normal” firearm, but it seems commonplace with artillery.

The question is if there is a cumulative effect from the smaller shock waves or if there is a threshold that needs to be exceeded to cause issues.

I think for SEALs in particular the issue would be cumulative large shockwaves, and how to better protect against them.
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