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It's getting harder to die

plough.com

111–120 of 255 posts

Re: It's getting harder to die

#111

I'd like dying to be as easy as flicking a switch. Medically-assisted suicide ought to be available to anyone (not only of sound mind and not only with a terminal condition), and at any time. People ought to have the right to die, just like they have the right to water, food, and shelter. In most countries it is currently easier to take other people's lives than to take one's own. People ought to be able to step into…

[deleted]

Re: It's getting harder to die

#112

I'd like dying to be as easy as flicking a switch. Medically-assisted suicide ought to be available to anyone (not only of sound mind and not only with a terminal condition), and at any time. People ought to have the right to die, just like they have the right to water, food, and shelter. In most countries it is currently easier to take other people's lives than to take one's own. People ought to be able to step into…

How do you reconcile that with many people that attempted suicide due to some illness like depression, and then later very much we're glad they didn't die. "Only of sound mind" sounds difficult to measure. Related: Majority of gun deaths in the USA are suicides. In the gun control debate you might want to exclude those, right? But actually having ready access to a way to die increases the total number of suicides - i…

What if they change their mind again? Years later, they might have a fleeting thought: "I could have died back then."

The point is, the mind changes constantly; it's its nature. What should one do?

Personally, I'd rather avoid the rollercoaster of "I'm happy I didn't die" and "I should've died."

Re: It's getting harder to die

#113
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a fair bit older than you... What you're saying is true but it's also worth mentioning your body has capabilities you're probably far from reaching. Most people your age can still exceed any physical accomplishment they've had in their lifetime if they really want to. E.g. they can play sports better than they ever had and they can achieve personal bests in any physical ability. If you were a top level profession…

I'm unsure your first point can be true. The pinnacle for a 37 year old is surely lower than for his 23 or 24 year old incarnation, if both life stages were given the same fitness programme. 37 is still very young, but there's already some trace of physical deterioration by then, most apparent in athletes who in almost all sports aside from golf, are off their peak by then.

They're saying that you can be the best shape of your life beyond your prime potential years because almost nobody reaches their potential in their prime, which is trivially true, not that you can perform better at 37 than a theoretical maximum in your 20s that you never achieved.

Re: It's getting harder to die

#114
Humans have long handled death in a very backwards and disgusting manner.

We have humans, who can clearly assert a particular desire when of sound, lucid mind. Yet we do not allow them to have any control over one of the most personal experiences their life will ever offer them, when in a medical establishment. We don't allow people to assert a desire to be euthanized gently. We force them to die on their own (by being unwilling to do anything more than remove care), no matter how much they may be suffering. Of course, we always have the option of taking matters into our own hands, with all the potential stumbling blocks that provides.

In contrast, we have pets, who can not verbally assert any particular desire, due to the lack of common language. We can't ask them if they want to stay with their loved ones, or if they're suffering and want to be free. Yet we make the decision to actively end their lives every single day in the world.

Logically, this seems completely backwards to me. It seems like we should err on the side of not ending a pet's life when they don't want us to, and that we should allow people of sound mind to articulate a self-aware desire to have a more dignified, gentle death as much as possible.

Re: It's getting harder to die

#116

I'd like dying to be as easy as flicking a switch. Medically-assisted suicide ought to be available to anyone (not only of sound mind and not only with a terminal condition), and at any time. People ought to have the right to die, just like they have the right to water, food, and shelter. In most countries it is currently easier to take other people's lives than to take one's own. People ought to be able to step into…

Let's run a thought experiment - you make death super easy like in a suicide booth in Futurama. How many people are going to fight life obstacles, pushing society forward, or rather terminally quit at the first sign of troubles? Nihilism was quite popular in the 19th century and led us to two world wars already. All you'll get is a quick extinction of people like you in favor of those that persist and your opinion wi…

People ready to die often don't care about pushing society forward or ensuring the continuation of the human species.

I always ask: for how long? What is the ultimate goal? If you don’t know, it's time to seek answers before pushing society forward carelessly.

Re: It's getting harder to die

#117
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a fair bit older than you... What you're saying is true but it's also worth mentioning your body has capabilities you're probably far from reaching. Most people your age can still exceed any physical accomplishment they've had in their lifetime if they really want to. E.g. they can play sports better than they ever had and they can achieve personal bests in any physical ability. If you were a top level profession…

I'm unsure your first point can be true. The pinnacle for a 37 year old is surely lower than for his 23 or 24 year old incarnation, if both life stages were given the same fitness programme. 37 is still very young, but there's already some trace of physical deterioration by then, most apparent in athletes who in almost all sports aside from golf, are off their peak by then.

I think that's why they said "most people":

> Most people your age can still exceed any physical accomplishment they've had in their lifetime if they really want to. E.g. they can play sports better than they ever had and they can achieve personal bests in any physical ability.

So not people who were at the peak of their ability/potential in their 20s – most people, however, do not perform at their limits in their 20s, simply because that isn't their priority, they don't train for it, etc.

Re: It's getting harder to die

#118

I'd like dying to be as easy as flicking a switch. Medically-assisted suicide ought to be available to anyone (not only of sound mind and not only with a terminal condition), and at any time. People ought to have the right to die, just like they have the right to water, food, and shelter. In most countries it is currently easier to take other people's lives than to take one's own. People ought to be able to step into…

I wholeheartedly support this point of view. Death should be an option freely and easily accessibile to anyone.

Why have people here who don't want to be here?

Re: It's getting harder to die

#119
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally would be so upset in that situation, that I would refuse it on principal from that provider after being threatened, health be damned.

It's not personal-- the docs are there to cure disease and just doing what they know, personhood be darned. Also, in the moment, it's entirely possible that somebody who is otherwise completely rational who just had a life-altering experience is temporarily less than completely rational and you're only hearing that one side of the story.

That's the problem. It's not personal, and humanity is not even a factor in that hospital's assessment.

Why does society refuse to allow people to have mental and physical autonomy in matters like this? Sure, they pay lip service to it, but when it comes down to the hard moments, we almost always end up erring on the wrong side.

Re: It's getting harder to die

#120
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know that government doesn’t care about you. They care about your relatives who are burdened not “accidentally” holding that button for you when somehow you would still like to live.

In the US, the big reason is religious groups that want to force their religion onto others.

There are anti-euthanasia atheists (E.g. Kevin Yuell).
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