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Amazon fined $5.9M for breaking labor law in California

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Amazon fined $5.9M for breaking labor law in California

#111

Post by JumpCrisscross »

dgfitz wrote: post #53
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With ownership, the government also then has the ability to 'peer behind the veil' more easily and make sure management is behaving You want every politician you don’t like in the country having this power? > if a company continues to misbehave the government over time takes ownership and can then replace the board This is expropriation. (It’s also fines with extra steps and ongoing costs.) > think a corporate equi…

> You want every politician you don’t like in the country having this power? What an interesting question. I personally feel like this line of thinking is a microcosm of how terrible the US frame of mind is right now. Mostly though, you like some of them??

> you like some of them?

Yes, the ones who understand why betting on benevolent dictators is a losing strategy in the long run.

Re: Amazon fined $5.9M for breaking labor law in California

#112

Post by harimau777 »

ipaddr wrote: post #67
altairprime wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For labor laws, I’m not sure that’s as bad idea as your sarcasm might indicate. Perhaps, instead, “a mandatory fine shall be levied of 100% of direct and indirect labor expenses (including benefits, unpaid wages, and court-ordered wages) during each calendar year in which labor violations occurred”. That way there’s a natural cap on it to satisfy the courts, but it’s still large enough that any violations are actuall…

Or amazon moves to hire workers who are employed by other agencies to reduce risk.

Then pass a law to make them liable even if the employees are employed by other agencies.

Re: Amazon fined $5.9M for breaking labor law in California

#113

Post by lux-lux-lux »

paulddraper wrote: post #96
latentcall wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good idea, I think that’s a healthy minimum. If C level fellas were aware of the violations or didn’t do their due diligence then let’s say a 5 year minimum prison sentence.

Do you genuinely believe your boss pushing for too-high productivity quotas warrants jail time? We talk of "overcriminalization."

The aggregate harm of these measures vastly exceeds, say, a violent assault. Amazon has double the rate of serious injuries compared to rival companies.

Re: Amazon fined $5.9M for breaking labor law in California

#115

Post by harimau777 »

paulddraper wrote: post #96
latentcall wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good idea, I think that’s a healthy minimum. If C level fellas were aware of the violations or didn’t do their due diligence then let’s say a 5 year minimum prison sentence.

Do you genuinely believe your boss pushing for too-high productivity quotas warrants jail time? We talk of "overcriminalization."

If it leads to negligent harm then that seems reasonable.

Re: Amazon fined $5.9M for breaking labor law in California

#116

Post by 0xTJ »

elevatedastalt wrote: post #37

[flagged]

The issue with small fines is that they can very easily be cheaper than doing the right thing. If you saved money by stealing breakfast every morning for a year, and the only punishment was a fine for the cost of 5 breakfasts, then there's nothing legally enforced discouraging you from having 360 free breakfasts a year.

Re: Amazon fined $5.9M for breaking labor law in California

#117

Post by maximinus_thrax »

IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #58

Retail has had labor quotas (with serious health/mental consequences) since time immemorial, but i don't see any outrage against Sears, ToysRus, or BedBath. Why ?

Probably because it's the largest employer of warehouse workers in the nation and the second largest employer overall? Also, the issue is not having quotas, it's having quotas and keeping them secret from the workers.

Re: Amazon fined $5.9M for breaking labor law in California

#118

Post by jnordwick »

latentcall wrote: post #50
elevatedastalt wrote: post #37

[flagged]

Good idea, I think that’s a healthy minimum. If C level fellas were aware of the violations or didn’t do their due diligence then let’s say a 5 year minimum prison sentence.

This is how you get sky high CEO salaries. If they are going to help criminally liable, their salaries are going to have to rise to reflect the increased risk. If you got your way, C-level compensation would go up 10x or higher? I'm sure then you would be asking why CEO salaries are so high and we need to do something about them.

Re: Amazon fined $5.9M for breaking labor law in California

#119

Post by nwienert »

Aurornis wrote: post #92
dolni wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fine doesn't even amount to a slap on the wrist. It's like if someone stole $1000 worth of merchandise from a store and the only punishment is a $1000 fine... and you get to keep what you stole. Why be law abiding when you could break the law and potentially make more money? You'd have to be stupid to be law abiding in a system like that.

> It's like if someone stole $1000 worth of merchandise from a store and the only punishment is a $1000 fine... and you get to keep what you stole. No, it's not like that at all. The fine was for two specific locations and it was for not disclosing specific quotas in writing. Drawing analogies to a person stealing from a store doesn't make sense. The fine was likely calculated to offset any potential gains they may h…

On a more general note, fines need to be something like 5-10x of the benefit, not 1-2x. Of course the gov has limited resources, limited ability to win trials, etc, so they need to be far beyond just compensation.
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