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How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

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Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#111

Post by throwaway2037 »

promiseofbeans wrote: post #65
Ylpertnodi wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replacing seems fair enough...eliminates buyers remorse.

It's not as good for the environment, though. Some companies like Apple try to make up for this by replacing broken devices, then refurbishing and reselling the formerly broken device.

My guess: These companies have an internal repair division that will try to sell it as "warranty repaired" later. Or, they sell it at a discount to a company that specialises in oven repairs. They will fix it, then resell it. My guess: Apple's devices are way harder to repair than your average oven or refrigerator.

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#112

Post by Redneck-Tech »

cbmuser wrote: post #55
shermozle wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the flip of that is that if the manufacturer doesn't think it'll work longer than 2 years, that needs to be disclosed forcefully at sale time.

It‘s extremely difficult to predict the lifetime of a consumer product as it also depends on how it’s being used. Who knows, maybe the author has been using the oven excessively or never cleaned it etc. So far, we‘ve heard one side only.

Ninety percent of manufactured goods are ultimately trash, pride in craftsmanship has gone by the wayside. Things are shoved through production with little to no f*cks given in regards to quality, if the S.O.B is just a gnats ass within tolerance, just send it, and pump out as many more as you can because we have quotas and due dates to meet.

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#113

Post by Someone »

gpderetta wrote: post #81
constantcrying wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the courts really matter, what does matter are the legal guarantees. In the EU it is an explicit two years, so I think a situation like this, where a 9 year old appliances is being repaired under threat of legal action, simply won't arise as the customer has no legal basis for his claim.

A not often discussed problem with the EU guarantee is that in the first 6 months, every defect is presumed to have been present at the time it was bought. After 6 months it is on the consumer to prove it, and for most things it is just not worth it to pay for an expert opinion. So in practice the iron clad guarantee is only 6 months for most consumer products. At least that's the interpretation of the law in the UK.…

> A not often discussed problem with the EU guarantee is that in the first 6 months, every defect is presumed to have been present at the time it was bought. After 6 months it is on the consumer to prove it, and for most things it is just not worth it to pay for an expert opinion.

I don’t think the EU says anything that specific (https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/dealing-with-customers...)

> At least that's the interpretation of the law in the UK.

If that’s true, I think it would be specific to the UK.

Also, what the UK says isn’t relevant for discussing EU consumer rights anymore.

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#114

Post by throwaway2037 »

Rygian wrote: post #67
divan wrote: post #60

MHBKD recently made a video on Apple testing lab [1], and one thing he talked about and that was kinda new to me is seeing repairability as a spectrum. I.e. on one side is "indestructible" product and on the other is "perfectly repairable". And that those properties (being hard to damage/destruct and being easy to repair) might be mutually exclusive. In a hindsight it seems obvious, still this video was the first tim…

In France, the "Repairability Index" was mandatory since 2021 [1, in French], and will be superseded by the "Durability Index" starting on 2025 [2, in French] [1] https://www.ecologie.gouv.fr/indice-reparabilite [2] https://www.ecologie.gouv.fr/indice-durabilite

Is the idea of these indices to encourage buyers to choose more repairable / durable goods? I can remember shopping for a new fridge with my parents as a kid: The energy efficiency labels (mandated by the gov't) made a big difference on their purchasing decisions.

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#115

Post by Denvercoder9 »

arp242 wrote: post #97
Denvercoder9 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that this table comes from "Techniek Nederland", which is a business association of (among others) technical retailers. They've an interest in lowering the expected lifespan of appliances, as that means their members have less warranty to provide. They actually note (probably for legal reasons) along with their table that it contains average usage, not expected lifespan (i.e. how long people use things before th…

It was linked from the ACM or consumentenbond, or some such consumer website. I don't have the tab open, but it wasn't just a random link from Google. But yeah, it's just a guideline like I said. Some people here are throwing out numbers such as a "15 years" or "decades" with no qualifiers, and I'm not sure if that's reasonable for a €230 oven (cheapest in a quick check). Aside on retailers: I haven't worked in a sto…

> It was linked from the ACM or consumentenbond, or some such consumer website. I don't have the tab open, but it wasn't just a random link from Google.

Yes, it gets often quoted, but things don't become true by being often repeated. It probably wasn't the Consumentenbond, as they actively call out the list from Techniek Nederland (previously Uneto-VNI) as being too short on their website.

[1] https://www.consumentenbond.nl/nieuws/2016/consumenten-hebbe...

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#116

Post by Redneck-Tech »

sofixa wrote: post #107
Redneck-Tech wrote: post #73

Absolutely blows my mind how many people have fallen into the trap that is "SMART" devices and "POWER EFFICIENT" appliances. Only to find out just after the warranty runs out that they ultimately invested in a hawt piece of trash. There is no pride in manufactured goods anymore, imho there's not much pride in anything nowadays. Not surprising when a burger engineer at McDonald's makes more money than even an entry le…

> Absolutely blows my mind how many people have fallen into the trap that is "SMART" devices and "POWER EFFICIENT" appliances. Only to find out just after the warranty runs out that they ultimately invested in a hawt piece of trash Those two/three things are entirely unrelated. Power efficient appliances are a must in most countries not powered by low-carbon energy (so in the EU, that basically leaves everyone outsid…

Quality has much to do with efficiency. Try driving on bent wheels and let me know how efficient that is. My washing machine tells me its done by making a chime same as my oven... no internet needed.

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#117

Post by ktallett »

23B1 wrote: post #75
promiseofbeans wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly, the US doesn't seem to have particularly great consumer guarantees - you just have to rely on warranties given as an extra marketing point by a company. In more developed countries like Australia, NZ, and the UK, warranties last less time than the guarantee offered by consumer law and only exist to try and confuse consumers into not asking for repairs after the warranty expires (but not necessarily the consume…

[flagged]

It is a shame that this is needed to be said but in many laws it is true. Employment, consumer, health, and prisoner come to mind.

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#118

Post by bell-cot »

mschuster91 wrote: post #93
bell-cot wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

15 years seems darn short for an oven. The (electric) one I have now is from the late 1960's, and perfectly functional. At church, our (gas) kitchen oven is about a century old - and the last service man we had said that it should be good for another century, if we're careful not to let it rust out.

phew, at that age I'd really be worried about the seals for the gas oven and about the insulation of the wiring for the electric one.

[Took a look at my stove] Nope, all the easily-accessed wiring (under the stove top - which lifts like a car hood, for quick clean-up after a pot boils over) is in excellent shape. Insulation colors look a bit faded, but that's it. (Yes, all those wires bend a bit when you either remove a burner, or lift the top. But the design is such that the radius of those bends is extremely large, compared to the diameter of the probably-solid-copper wire.)

Guess: "Gas Seals" was a checklist item for that last service man at church. I think we have our gas stove, water heater, and furnace looked at every 7-ish years by someone from the local gas company.

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#119

Post by Modified3019 »

Moldoteck wrote: post #51
notoverthere wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also the Centennial Light [1], a light bulb made in the late 1890s. It was first lit in 1901 and it's still alight today. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centennial_Light

i guess a lot of lights will work a lot longer if powered at such low voltage and not switched on/off like most ppl do, but this would reduce a lot nr of cases where such a light can be used

I love incandescent twinkly colored christmas mini-lights, so much that I use them for providing walkable light at night around the doors to the backyard for roommates. They have a warm glow that LED’s just don’t replicate yet, and the filament and glass make them more gem-like. And the twinkle bulbs are truly “random” and also create subtle and pleasing variations in brightness in the whole line, due to voltage fluctuations.

Not a single one has burned out in something like 4 years of runtime. Honestly the paint inside the bulbs is going to fade away completely before these things go out. The trick is 2 things:

1. Don’t move them

2. Use a dimmer and run them around 75% power

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#120

Post by kelnos »

ktallett wrote: post #117
23B1 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It is a shame that this is needed to be said but in many laws it is true. Employment, consumer, health, and prisoner come to mind.

The definition of "developed country" doesn't really track those metrics, though. It's more about economy, level of technology and general infrastructure commonly available, etc.
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