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My thoughts on Python in Excel

xlwings.org

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Re: My thoughts on Python in Excel

#111

Post by Lukas1994 »

openrisk wrote: post #53

Maybe its time to start fresh with a clean sheet? (Pun). The spreadsheet paradigm is immensely intuitive and arguably the only alternative to the standard procedural programming currently in use in number crumching. But therein lies also a major weakness when used for important tasks: hard to validate. Once you further combine it with API calls and whatnot, the situation gets totally out of hand: how do you reproduce…

IMO the better paradigm is coming from enterprise applications like Anaplan. Cells are not the right abstraction to work with numbers. Most of the time you work with multi-dimensional quantities (eg revenue by product, geography, month).

We’re working on a more approachable implementation of that paradigm at https://causal.app

Re: My thoughts on Python in Excel

#112

Post by snthpy »

airstrike wrote: post #5

> We wanted an alternative to VBA, but got an alternative to the Excel formula language. indeed > Integrating the Jupyter notebook cells inside the Excel grid was a mistake. 100% agreed. this seems like the typical Microsoft behavior where the team A was pushing their product and won over team B, even though it's not really what users needed > Python in Excel isn’t suitable for Python beginners nor for interactive da…

Hi,

I'd love to read your paper when it's ready.

Re: My thoughts on Python in Excel

#113

Post by FractalHQ »

pphysch wrote: post #109
petsfed wrote: post #107

This feels like a variation on Zawinski's Law: Every program attempts to expand until it can run python [read mail]. Those programs which cannot so expand are replaced by ones which can. Or more broadly, the inner-platform effect. I'm left wondering "why would you use python within the lousy coding interface of excel, when Pandas already exists?"

Once Python became the lingua franca for next-gen HPC applications (i.e. machine learning), we had a good indication that the (higher-level) programming language wars will soon be over. Students graduating today are comfortable in Jupyter notebooks but not a CLI. Also on HN front-page is a full implementation of llm.c in Python-superset Mojo. Once Python takes off in the browser, either by compiling to WASM (via some…

Python will have to pry the Typescript types from my cold dead hands before I choose it on purpose. If anything is going to replace Typescripts web dominance, it will need to offer an advantage.. not a regression. Python would be such a harsh downgrade in so many ways.

Re: My thoughts on Python in Excel

#114

Post by snthpy »

fzumstein wrote: post #72

Hi all, I am Felix, the author of the post. I just wanted to reiterate that this post was mainly meant as a summary of my GitHub issues I opened with them. So it should really be seen as a feedback to help them improve the product. Python in Excel currently covers a completely different use-case than xlwings, but Python in Excel inspired me to finally look into WASM and PyScript, which is an awesome product.

Hi,

Thanks for the post. Very insightful!

I'm looking forward to trying out your pywasm module, or should it be ESP (Excel Subsystem for Python)?

Re: My thoughts on Python in Excel

#115

Post by lwtarsx1 »

pphysch wrote: post #109
petsfed wrote: post #107

This feels like a variation on Zawinski's Law: Every program attempts to expand until it can run python [read mail]. Those programs which cannot so expand are replaced by ones which can. Or more broadly, the inner-platform effect. I'm left wondering "why would you use python within the lousy coding interface of excel, when Pandas already exists?"

Once Python became the lingua franca for next-gen HPC applications (i.e. machine learning), we had a good indication that the (higher-level) programming language wars will soon be over. Students graduating today are comfortable in Jupyter notebooks but not a CLI. Also on HN front-page is a full implementation of llm.c in Python-superset Mojo. Once Python takes off in the browser, either by compiling to WASM (via some…

Google just fired the Python team, though that of course might also have political reasons. I don't think that Google or anyone else is prepared to use PyScript.

I would not either, given the attitude of Python core towards security and correctness.

Re: My thoughts on Python in Excel

#116

Post by mrgoldenbrown »

localhost wrote: post #97

As a counterpoint to a lot of the speculation on this thread, if you're interested in learning more about how and why we designed Python in Excel, I wrote up a doc (that is quite old but captures the core design quite well) here [1]. Disclosure: I was a founding member of the design team for the feature. [1] https://notes.iunknown.com/python-in-excel/Book+of+Python+in...

This was interesting but seems focused on how, not why. Like why not python as alternative to VBA, and why cloud only.

Re: My thoughts on Python in Excel

#117

Post by petsfed »

lwtarsx1 wrote: post #115
pphysch wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once Python became the lingua franca for next-gen HPC applications (i.e. machine learning), we had a good indication that the (higher-level) programming language wars will soon be over. Students graduating today are comfortable in Jupyter notebooks but not a CLI. Also on HN front-page is a full implementation of llm.c in Python-superset Mojo. Once Python takes off in the browser, either by compiling to WASM (via some…

Google just fired the Python team, though that of course might also have political reasons. I don't think that Google or anyone else is prepared to use PyScript. I would not either, given the attitude of Python core towards security and correctness.

This is where I land too. Python is very handy when I need to do something quickly, I expect to modify exactly what I'm doing often, and security and efficiency are not core goals.

But every time I start to write a class in python, it feels like bikeshedding to me.

Re: My thoughts on Python in Excel

#118

Post by gerdesj »

claaams wrote: post #42
gerdesj wrote: post #10

I agree with xlwings about this but for different reasons. MS are a company wot makes money. Python was added to Excel cos R and Python and so on - market share. I suggest you do what my brother does and unanswer the question! He works for quite a large firm and is surrounded by quite a lot of data. He is a Windows user by routine and asked me for some help. I got Python + MS Visual Code installed and integrated for…

That workflow sounds so painful. Why not get a BI tool that can integrate directly into your data warehouse and do reporting through that?

Sometimes you have to do your thing and then enforce change (if you can). Large orgs can be just as odd as individuals but on a far grander scale.

I've worked for other firms and then my own for the last 24 years. My job title is Managing Director but I am under no illusion that my word is final. It is really final but only when I say so and I never do.

Oh a BI thingie. Yes that will fix everything. No it wont.

Re: My thoughts on Python in Excel

#119

Post by lassoiat »

tomrod wrote: post #28
marcodiego wrote: post #24

Didn't read it but, couldn't this be a "battlefield" where LibreOffice could have unbeatable advantage?

Yes.

Delusional.

While I wish this was not the case, the consumers of my excel spreadsheets barely have enough excel skills as is.

The idea there is any value in scrapping all that for LibreOffice is completely and utterly delusional.

Re: My thoughts on Python in Excel

#120

Post by TZubiri »

Spivak wrote: post #44
TZubiri wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>excel is too bleh >python is too blah >myLanguageOfChoice is just right. We can't all be special snowflakes, python and excel are lingua francas.

Lua is pretty uncontroversial as the embedded language of choice and is actually made specifically to be embedded and play nice with the surrounding application. I get why they chose Python for this and it's not all that hard to embed, well the interpreter anyway, compiled modules are another story.

Yeah if what you are making are videogames.

If you are doing grown up stuff, you use a grown up language.

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