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D-Day, as told by paratroopers

politico.com

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Re: D-Day, as told by paratroopers

#111

Post by llamaimperative »

nyolfen wrote: post #104
llamaimperative wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of this discredits the argument that there exists an isolationist strain in US politics today.

yes, a strain that has manifested in...withdrawing from one (1) conflict after 20 years. even the example he gives, of threatening to withdraw from nato, is counterbalanced by the fact that nato has in fact expanded since! this is a 'strain in american politics' in the same way that being a billionaire is a strain in my worldview or speaking russian is a strain in mexican culture

It also delayed critical military aid from Ukraine, ceding European ground to a violent and despicable autocrat.

It is fascinating to see bent-reality arithmetic in real time:

“There is no isolationist strain”

“Okay yes there is but it’s ‘counterbalanced’ (whatever that means) through vigorous efforts by the opponents of that strain!”

That’s called there being an isolationist strain buddy.

Re: D-Day, as told by paratroopers

#112

Post by rufus_foreman »

llamaimperative wrote: post #111
nyolfen wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, a strain that has manifested in...withdrawing from one (1) conflict after 20 years. even the example he gives, of threatening to withdraw from nato, is counterbalanced by the fact that nato has in fact expanded since! this is a 'strain in american politics' in the same way that being a billionaire is a strain in my worldview or speaking russian is a strain in mexican culture

It also delayed critical military aid from Ukraine, ceding European ground to a violent and despicable autocrat. It is fascinating to see bent-reality arithmetic in real time: “There is no isolationist strain” “Okay yes there is but it’s ‘counterbalanced’ (whatever that means) through vigorous efforts by the opponents of that strain!” That’s called there being an isolationist strain buddy.

Giving a country military aid, but not as much military aid as that country might have liked, is not isolationism.

It just isn't. That's not what "isolationism" means.

Re: D-Day, as told by paratroopers

#113

Post by hatchoo »

rightbyte wrote: post #96
rangerr wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This take is baffling... in SPR the protagonists lose man after man over the course of the movie, right up until the end. A central theme is the irony and tragedy of how the mission to rescue a single man costs so many lives.

Hmm... I might need to rewatch SPR. I might be mixing it up with Band of Brothers.

BoB was somewhat like that too. They lost "brothers" along the way. While there are heroic deeds along the way, it shows the sad realities of war as well.

Re: D-Day, as told by paratroopers

#114

Post by SkipperCat »

oooyay wrote: post #102
SkipperCat wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people, including myself, feel similar when looking back at WWII. The roles of good and evil were very clearly defined and that has forged the US foreign policy up to today. Of course, there's a lot of things we know now which show the conflict was a lot more complex, but at its core, the Axis needed to be defeated for our western style of freedom to exist. I don't think we'll ever have something as clear cu…

The post-hoc rationalizations are clearly defined, which makes people more comfortable paying homage to WWII despite it being incredibly dicey. I say post-hoc because the US actually had a rather large Nazi party forming. Most people joining the war were pretty aloof as to why. It was only when those troops encountered the the Nazi death camps that the state of things became clear. The US primarily joined the war eff…

It has been said if the US and its allies lost WWII, the victorious Axis would have tried and executed the US military leaders for war crimes for the bombing campaigns. A prime example of history is written by the victors.

PBS did a great documentary of Nazis in the US pre-WWII

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/films/nazi-town-...

It elaborates on your point about the large US Nazi presence.

Re: D-Day, as told by paratroopers

#115

Post by [deleted] »

llamaimperative wrote: post #111
nyolfen wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, a strain that has manifested in...withdrawing from one (1) conflict after 20 years. even the example he gives, of threatening to withdraw from nato, is counterbalanced by the fact that nato has in fact expanded since! this is a 'strain in american politics' in the same way that being a billionaire is a strain in my worldview or speaking russian is a strain in mexican culture

It also delayed critical military aid from Ukraine, ceding European ground to a violent and despicable autocrat. It is fascinating to see bent-reality arithmetic in real time: “There is no isolationist strain” “Okay yes there is but it’s ‘counterbalanced’ (whatever that means) through vigorous efforts by the opponents of that strain!” That’s called there being an isolationist strain buddy.

[deleted]

Re: D-Day, as told by paratroopers

#116

Post by jimbobthrowawy »

SkipperCat wrote: post #114
oooyay wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The post-hoc rationalizations are clearly defined, which makes people more comfortable paying homage to WWII despite it being incredibly dicey. I say post-hoc because the US actually had a rather large Nazi party forming. Most people joining the war were pretty aloof as to why. It was only when those troops encountered the the Nazi death camps that the state of things became clear. The US primarily joined the war eff…

It has been said if the US and its allies lost WWII, the victorious Axis would have tried and executed the US military leaders for war crimes for the bombing campaigns. A prime example of history is written by the victors. PBS did a great documentary of Nazis in the US pre-WWII https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/films/nazi-town-... It elaborates on your point about the large US Nazi presence.

Were any axis leaders tried for war crimes related to bombing campaigns? Most of what I've heard of relates to smaller more specific warcrimes and ones related to genocide.

I'm sure there's more examples, but the only allied case I can think of was a soldier convicted for hiding in an ambulance and shooting from it.

Re: D-Day, as told by paratroopers

#117

Post by jimbobthrowawy »

Those unpowered gliders pictured in the article weren't something I knew much about until I saw it as part of a d-day in real time video. [0] Fantastic solution to a pretty specific logistics problem. I appreciate how the solution they arrived on for how to quickly get everyone out once they landed was to give the four men at the back spanners to quickly unbolt the rear end of the vehicle.

0: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsIk0qF0R1j4nZd_D0GWK...

Re: D-Day, as told by paratroopers

#118

Post by llamaimperative »

rufus_foreman wrote: post #112
llamaimperative wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also delayed critical military aid from Ukraine, ceding European ground to a violent and despicable autocrat. It is fascinating to see bent-reality arithmetic in real time: “There is no isolationist strain” “Okay yes there is but it’s ‘counterbalanced’ (whatever that means) through vigorous efforts by the opponents of that strain!” That’s called there being an isolationist strain buddy.

Giving a country military aid, but not as much military aid as that country might have liked, is not isolationism. It just isn't. That's not what "isolationism" means.

Good god. No one is saying “the US is isolationist.”

Re: D-Day, as told by paratroopers

#119

Post by oooyay »

SkipperCat wrote: post #114
oooyay wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The post-hoc rationalizations are clearly defined, which makes people more comfortable paying homage to WWII despite it being incredibly dicey. I say post-hoc because the US actually had a rather large Nazi party forming. Most people joining the war were pretty aloof as to why. It was only when those troops encountered the the Nazi death camps that the state of things became clear. The US primarily joined the war eff…

It has been said if the US and its allies lost WWII, the victorious Axis would have tried and executed the US military leaders for war crimes for the bombing campaigns. A prime example of history is written by the victors. PBS did a great documentary of Nazis in the US pre-WWII https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/films/nazi-town-... It elaborates on your point about the large US Nazi presence.

> A prime example of history is written by the victors.

Not quite; that requires equalities; the Nazis and that version of Japan were not nearly equal in their evil or atrocities to the Allies. My point moreso was that the Allies were doing a thing in war we don't do anymore, which is matching force with force - which today is illegal. We have the Geneva Convention that stops us from doing that anymore. Now of course, late in the war we discovered the death camps and that is the post-hoc rationalization that I'm referring to but nonetheless the Geneva convention is a byproduct of the shock of what it took to win. It more or less attempts to put a ceiling on the ferocity of war.

Re: D-Day, as told by paratroopers

#120

Post by oooyay »

jimbobthrowawy wrote: post #116
SkipperCat wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has been said if the US and its allies lost WWII, the victorious Axis would have tried and executed the US military leaders for war crimes for the bombing campaigns. A prime example of history is written by the victors. PBS did a great documentary of Nazis in the US pre-WWII https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/films/nazi-town-... It elaborates on your point about the large US Nazi presence.

Were any axis leaders tried for war crimes related to bombing campaigns? Most of what I've heard of relates to smaller more specific warcrimes and ones related to genocide. I'm sure there's more examples, but the only allied case I can think of was a soldier convicted for hiding in an ambulance and shooting from it.

No: https://www.lewrockwell.com/2008/06/patrick-j-buchanan/wwii-...

There was a strategic decision not to charge Nazis for the bombing of London.

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