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EU countries must implement right to repair laws within two years

consilium.europa.eu

111–120 of 120 posts

Re: EU countries must implement right to repair laws within two years

#111
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question, how do you think we keep unemployment from becoming catastrophic in this world ?

Has it become catastrophic in the 200 years since the industrial revolution threatened this would be the case, while the world population went up eightfold?

Did the industrial revolution happen over an extremely compressed timeframe and feature machines that can assemble machines based on labor output data?

Re: EU countries must implement right to repair laws within two years

#112
post #89

That's not "right to repair". Right to repair is: - I can repair it myself - with free access to schematics - with access to spare parts - without coupling between hardware and software The EU completely misunderstood what right to repair is and is now implementing something so that they can say that they have "right to repair". This will damage the RTR movement even further. I wonder who lobbied for this.

The problem of the European Union is that it is founded not on the concepts of a federation or union states. And finally merging into one nation. The European Union is building up on the „ Montanunion (long version: European Coal and Steel Community) and that is the rational why they care mostly about economy and still believe in free-trade[1]. This causes friction between young people which want one entity of state…

But can you separate the economy and people?

Re: EU countries must implement right to repair laws within two years

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a "right" to repair something doesn't really mean much if the vendors can legally keep documentation and spare parts from you, does it? The point is that this law does not give you any more rights on that matter, it only grants those rights to professionals. Furthermore, "you can do what you want with it" is misleading if doing what you want with it (e.g. repairing it) will have unreasonable consequences such…

> Furthermore, "you can do what you want with it" is misleading if doing what you want with it (e.g. repairing it) will have unreasonable consequences such as unfairly void warranties and so on. Not it's not misleading. If it's under warranty it means they'll repair it for free. But equally it's quite reasonable for them to refuse (i.e. warranty is void) is you have fiddled with the device. A warranty is only a consu…

It's reasonable if you have fiddled and broken something, but a catch-all if you touch it then you lose all rights is not reasonable.

Re: EU countries must implement right to repair laws within two years

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that this law grants rights to professional repairmen/service providers, not to consumers (or anyone else).

We have a right to repair and always had, as said. Individuals have access in the same way as repairmen. It's already possible to source parts for most appliances as an individual. This should make it easier. Indeed, what is the difference between a consumer and a "professional repairman"? None apart from the fact that the latter is expected to have some competency and knowledge on how to get parts (which traditional…

> We have a right to repair and always had, as said.

You don't have a right to repair if you can't access the required docs, tools, spare parts or if there are unreasonable conditions if you do so. I know a lot of John Deere customers who don't agree with you, for starters. This is why "right to repair" is a thing at all.

> Indeed, what is the difference between a consumer and a "professional repairman"?

First, "professional repairman" is someone who offers repair as a service to others, who has it as their trade. You'd think the distinction would be easy to make. It is defined in one of the first articles of the directive.

Second, that you are not guaranteed access to documentation, spare parts and so on as a consumer.

Re: EU countries must implement right to repair laws within two years

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have a right to repair and always had, as said. Individuals have access in the same way as repairmen. It's already possible to source parts for most appliances as an individual. This should make it easier. Indeed, what is the difference between a consumer and a "professional repairman"? None apart from the fact that the latter is expected to have some competency and knowledge on how to get parts (which traditional…

> We have a right to repair and always had, as said. You don't have a right to repair if you can't access the required docs, tools, spare parts or if there are unreasonable conditions if you do so. I know a lot of John Deere customers who don't agree with you, for starters. This is why "right to repair" is a thing at all. > Indeed, what is the difference between a consumer and a "professional repairman"? First, "prof…

You are confusing right and practicality.

"Right to repair" is a gimmicky term for PR.

>First, "professional repairman" is someone who offers repair as a service to others, who has it as their trade.

Obviously... but you are missing the point. I already explained what I meant by "no difference".

Re: EU countries must implement right to repair laws within two years

#116
post #32
post #4

Why is there gatekeeping of "professional" repairers and "repair services"? Why can't I as a consumer view a service manual and buy a part? If a washing machine costs £220, and a professional repair man costs £70 per hour, nobody will repair out of warranty.

Serious question, how do you think we keep unemployment from becoming catastrophic in this world ?

We could value work more independently of its contribution to enrich an employer/board/funder (lots of important work is done through volunteering) and build a sufficient social net that unemployment isn't a problem. With all the productivity gains we made over the last few decades, we could possibly even have no unemployment, if everyone was employed fewer days per week at a full time salary. But we don't want to share the added value we're producing with everyone, do we? We make the choice to prioritize shareholder revenue growth over avoiding catastrophic unemployment.

Re: EU countries must implement right to repair laws within two years

#117
post #68
post #4

Why is there gatekeeping of "professional" repairers and "repair services"? Why can't I as a consumer view a service manual and buy a part? If a washing machine costs £220, and a professional repair man costs £70 per hour, nobody will repair out of warranty.

Because not everything can be build to not be dangerous. The potential of electrocution, poisoning from a battery are all real. Not real for you because you're probably smart but you have to think about people who have no idea what they're doing and could get themselves gurt

What I'm hearing is we should teach repairing and associated safety in school.

Re: EU countries must implement right to repair laws within two years

#118
post #37

This is only phase one; the citizens of Europe must now petition their own countries to implement great "Right to Repair" laws. Important economic fact: If only one single European country (with sufficient population) implements a rather strict right to repair law, then likely all manufacturers in all countries will need to adhere to it, since tech companies don't like to have to build multiple product variants (per…

A more probable outcome of a single country doing that is that new products won't be available there

They said that websites would stop operating in Europe if GDPR got through and guess what, instead they built privacy teams to be compliant and applied the stricter privacy rules more globally. It's all empty threats.

Re: EU countries must implement right to repair laws within two years

#119
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem of the European Union is that it is founded not on the concepts of a federation or union states. And finally merging into one nation. The European Union is building up on the „ Montanunion (long version: European Coal and Steel Community) and that is the rational why they care mostly about economy and still believe in free-trade[1]. This causes friction between young people which want one entity of state…

But can you separate the economy and people?

They already are. Ones are called "natural persons" the others are "legal persons".

Re: EU countries must implement right to repair laws within two years

#120
post #29

Holy shit anyone else notice the "accept cookies" options on this page, where "Accept" is a tiny checkmark and "Reject" is a large text button?

This is what it looks like for me: https://imgur.com/2eFW3Ef Two big clearly labeled buttons.

There is "cookie notices" filter lists you need to enable
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