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FireChat was a tool for revolution, then disappeared

fromjason.xyz

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Re: FireChat was a tool for revolution, then disappeared

#111

Post by dgski »

FireChat was never going to be resilient enough because it was installed on Apple and Google controlled devices.

This kind of system needs a dedicated or at least 'open' device with adequate hardware to support wireless mesh networks.

I would love to see something like this, because we (even, or rather, especially; Western countries) currently have no decentralized fallback for emergency communication. If the electric grid and cellphone network go... most people don't even have AM radios at this point.

Re: FireChat was a tool for revolution, then disappeared

#112

Post by lionkor »

luuurker wrote: post #9

Would Briar be a good alternative? https://briarproject.org/ edit: How it works: https://briarproject.org/how-it-works/

Briar is awesome. Ive used it to talk to my wife when we are seated away from each other in planes or trains and cant get up, via bluetooth due to lack of service, wifi, or because of airplane mode.

Re: FireChat was a tool for revolution, then disappeared

#113

Post by lxgr »

Quarrel wrote: post #20
motakuk wrote: post #8

It's gone because it was barely usable.

isn't that the exact opposite take from the article and anecdotes it contains? I never used it, but remember the hype. It didn't get there by not working.

I've tried it, and it was pretty bad.

This type of service needs Apple and Google support to go anywhere, given how restricted access to radio hardware and background processing is on iOS and Android, and they're clearly not interested.

Apple has even rolled back AirDrop functionality, supposedly because of people receiving unwanted photos (which I don't doubt happened, but changing the defaut could address that – just outright removing the option to receive from anybody seems wrong).

There's absolutely no reason we shouldn't at least have a P2P Wi-Fi based chat client preinstalled on every iOS and Android phone, with a default of being able to message only known contacts. I mean, even the Nintendo DS could do it in 2004!

Re: FireChat was a tool for revolution, then disappeared

#114

Post by lxgr »

dgski wrote: post #111

FireChat was never going to be resilient enough because it was installed on Apple and Google controlled devices. This kind of system needs a dedicated or at least 'open' device with adequate hardware to support wireless mesh networks. I would love to see something like this, because we (even, or rather, especially; Western countries) currently have no decentralized fallback for emergency communication. If the electri…

If the electric grid and cellphone go, what would be the problem with devices being Apple- and Google-controlled?

It seems like you're talking about two related but ultimately distinct concerns, i.e. reliance against infrastructure failures and reliance against organizational failures.

Re: FireChat was a tool for revolution, then disappeared

#115

Post by lxgr »

lionkor wrote: post #112
luuurker wrote: post #9

Would Briar be a good alternative? https://briarproject.org/ edit: How it works: https://briarproject.org/how-it-works/

Briar is awesome. Ive used it to talk to my wife when we are seated away from each other in planes or trains and cant get up, via bluetooth due to lack of service, wifi, or because of airplane mode.

Is that on Android or iOS?

I continue to be frustrated by having to use the plane's satellite internet connection (not always free) to message somebody sitting two rows away from me, so this would be great.

Re: FireChat was a tool for revolution, then disappeared

#116

Post by ChiperSoft »

twodave wrote: post #84

Tangential story time! Several years ago (circa 2015) I was asked to build an app like FireChat by just the _oddest_ couple of guys I've ever met. They wanted an app where you could connect to other folks just by being near them. I never could get them to agree on what exactly the app was supposed to be beyond that. The first gentleman was a VP-type for a large company. He insisted that the app (nicknamed "Pals" at t…

So they wanted Grindr from before they started fudging the distance numbers.

Re: FireChat was a tool for revolution, then disappeared

#117

Post by cookiengineer »

llamaimperative wrote: post #107
temporarely wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Then, one day in February 2020, as COVID-19 swept the globe, access to FireChat was completely cut off without explanation."

That is… not very informative at all.

Hong Kong now being part of China, and not an independent regime anymore?

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_2019%E2%80%9...

Re: FireChat was a tool for revolution, then disappeared

#118

Post by dgski »

lxgr wrote: post #114
dgski wrote: post #111

FireChat was never going to be resilient enough because it was installed on Apple and Google controlled devices. This kind of system needs a dedicated or at least 'open' device with adequate hardware to support wireless mesh networks. I would love to see something like this, because we (even, or rather, especially; Western countries) currently have no decentralized fallback for emergency communication. If the electri…

If the electric grid and cellphone go, what would be the problem with devices being Apple- and Google-controlled? It seems like you're talking about two related but ultimately distinct concerns, i.e. reliance against infrastructure failures and reliance against organizational failures.

Yeah, you're mostly right. I mean, these centralized entities could still sign and release instructions over the mesh network propagation (unlikely though).

Having an overall culture/goal of decentralization, can inform decisions on multiple levels/concerns (infra, energy, org). Basically, if I'm trying to be resilient to infra problems, it won't be that much effort in changing the design to also be resilient from centralized control.

Re: FireChat was a tool for revolution, then disappeared

#119

Post by zo1 »

nikolajan wrote: post #60
krb5 wrote: post #50

Hi there, I am on developement team of Newnode, a successor of FireChat founded by two of the same people ( https://www.newnode.com/ ). We now provide both, a VPN and a Messenger, with purpose to help people evade censorship and enable device-to-device connectivity. You can find the source code at https://github.com/clostra/newnode

I think the obvious question is: can you shed any light or provide context on why the service was shut down? And if not, it seems unrealistic to expect people to adopt / trust your alternative.

I think it's oddly telling or suspicious at the very-least that this dev isn't giving you a straight answer to your question.

Re: FireChat was a tool for revolution, then disappeared

#120

Post by guntars »

cl3misch wrote: post #94
guntars wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it open source? Will it one day mysteriously disappear from the internet too?

Why the snark? Even if it disappeared, that's better than never existing (helping people) at all.

It seems to me like they didn’t learn anything. You can’t have a business whose product is meant to overcome state censorship, unless, perhaps, you work for another government. It can work as an open source project though as there’s no legal entity to coerce, just a diffuse and ever changing group of contributors. Plus of course the trust question. As a closed source project, they could be paid or forced to add a backdoor. It’s possible that they didn’t help anyone at all.
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