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Mercedes becomes the first automaker to sell autonomous cars in the U.S.

fortune.com

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Re: Mercedes becomes the first automaker to sell autonomous cars in the U.S.

#111

Post by srockets »

bhauer wrote: post #64
homefree wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waymo is amazing and has fully replaced Uber for me in SF. They're also expanding to the entire peninsula from SF down to Cupertino - you're out of date on this. Waymo driving in SF is way better than human. It's not timid either. This Mercedes post is marketing - it's not really what people consider autonomous given the constraints. > "Drivers can activate Mercedes's technology, called Drive Pilot, when certain cond…

> "Drivers can activate Mercedes's technology. called Drive Pilot, when certain conditions are met, including in heavy traffic jams, during the daytime, on specific California and Nevada freeways, and when the car is traveling less than 40 mph. Drivers can focus on other activities until the vehicle alerts them to resume control. The technology does not work on roads that haven't been pre-approved by Mercedes, includ…

> Tesla doesn't want to assume liability yet because they are still iterating fast.

I would guess the reason for not wanting to assume liability is not their update cadence, but the same reason that made Mobileye fire them as a customer.

Re: Mercedes becomes the first automaker to sell autonomous cars in the U.S.

#112

Post by kmacdough »

pavlov wrote: post #63
ra7 wrote: post #57

It operates under such specific conditions, it’s not very useful right now. Unless you spend a large part of your commute on clogged California highways, there’s not a big use case. But Mercedes would be hoping to expand that operational design domain (ODD). Ultimately, I don’t think their L3 technology is the groundbreaking part (I think they use Nvidia Drive). It’s that they are willing to take liability inside the…

> “commute on clogged California highways” It’s embarrassing for Tesla because they pretended they had this solved and practically ready to ship eight years ago, started taking customer money; still take customer money on promises of “Real Soon Now”; and yet it’s a bunch of staid old Germans who actually ship it.

I'd hold off on the complements, we haven't seen the Mercedes on the road yet.

Re: Mercedes becomes the first automaker to sell autonomous cars in the U.S.

#113

Post by Veserv »

thibran wrote: post #47

A PR lie. Watch a Tesla FSD 12.3.4 video, then one of Mercedes and see for yourself.

Okay, https://vimeo.com/933054717/e2c3a7c650

Consistently running down stationary children in the middle of a empty, well-lit road is not exactly what I am looking for in a autonomous vehicle. In my mind that qualifies as somewhere between criminal negligence and depraved indifference to human life.

It does, however, remain to be seen how the Mercedes system fares in its operating domain, so it is prudent to reserve positive judgement until more evidence emerges.

Re: Mercedes becomes the first automaker to sell autonomous cars in the U.S.

#114

Post by srockets »

Retric wrote: post #89
bhauer wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Drivers can activate Mercedes's technology. called Drive Pilot, when certain conditions are met, including in heavy traffic jams, during the daytime, on specific California and Nevada freeways, and when the car is traveling less than 40 mph. Drivers can focus on other activities until the vehicle alerts them to resume control. The technology does not work on roads that haven't been pre-approved by Mercedes, includ…

Level 3 actually lets you take a break while driving. L2 systems don’t and therefore IMO don't provide significant benefits. More range and more driving conditions just don’t matter here if I can’t read a book on the way to work then it’s not self driving just advanced cruse control.

You can read a book on the way to work. Before going fully remote, I did it every weekday, using a magnificent piece of technology called public transit.

Re: Mercedes becomes the first automaker to sell autonomous cars in the U.S.

#115

Post by Retric »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #104
Retric wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Level 3 actually lets you take a break while driving. L2 systems don’t and therefore IMO don't provide significant benefits. More range and more driving conditions just don’t matter here if I can’t read a book on the way to work then it’s not self driving just advanced cruse control.

Not really. Mercedes say you have to be able to take over within ten seconds.

10 seconds after a warning which is plenty when your reading. You do need to stay awake, sober, and in the drivers seat but that’s not a big deal.

Re: Mercedes becomes the first automaker to sell autonomous cars in the U.S.

#116

Post by Retric »

srockets wrote: post #114
Retric wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Level 3 actually lets you take a break while driving. L2 systems don’t and therefore IMO don't provide significant benefits. More range and more driving conditions just don’t matter here if I can’t read a book on the way to work then it’s not self driving just advanced cruse control.

You can read a book on the way to work. Before going fully remote, I did it every weekday, using a magnificent piece of technology called public transit.

And level 5 beats level 3, however I don’t have any public transport options on the way to work and nobody is selling level 5 self driving cars. Mercedes hasn’t mapped my roads either, but that’s a lower barrier than getting nationwide public transportation setup.

Re: Mercedes becomes the first automaker to sell autonomous cars in the U.S.

#117

Post by BoorishBears »

RichardHesketh wrote: post #106
ra7 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s a good first step, but it’s still limited in usability in its current iteration.

This. It matters how you achieve level three. MBs solution requires a lot of legwork to build the datasets describing the specific roads where the L3 capability can then operate. There’s a massive amount to do in this approach to even come close to supporting a useful subset of all roads in their key markets. To my mind, Tesla is playing a long game betting on achieving a more generalised solution that doesn’t rely o…

Definitely takes something to imply someone working in the space (on actual self-driving, not faked demos and empty promises) is engaging in a "fanboy holy war".

The simple fact is Mercedes made a massive leap that other manufacturers have not been able too, despite repeat implications they would do so many years ago. The fact that some of the existing L2 systems can even be activated on non-major highways is a farce, and overall this is a lot of waxing poetic about what could be, vs what is.

-

> He’s forever talking up hard stuff where the timeline always turns out longer than his prediction - well, he would say that wouldn’t he? Needs to keep people buying shares - albeit balancing that against losing credibility

Actually, I can see why someone saying this stuff with a straight face would assume everyone else is also a fanboy of something.

Re: Mercedes becomes the first automaker to sell autonomous cars in the U.S.

#118

Post by drivingmenuts »

kmacdough wrote: post #112
pavlov wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “commute on clogged California highways” It’s embarrassing for Tesla because they pretended they had this solved and practically ready to ship eight years ago, started taking customer money; still take customer money on promises of “Real Soon Now”; and yet it’s a bunch of staid old Germans who actually ship it.

I'd hold off on the complements, we haven't seen the Mercedes on the road yet.

Even if the self-driving bit sucks, you're still getting a pretty decent car, which is more than Tesla should be allowed to claim.

Re: Mercedes becomes the first automaker to sell autonomous cars in the U.S.

#119

Post by cycomanic »

kmacdough wrote: post #112
pavlov wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “commute on clogged California highways” It’s embarrassing for Tesla because they pretended they had this solved and practically ready to ship eight years ago, started taking customer money; still take customer money on promises of “Real Soon Now”; and yet it’s a bunch of staid old Germans who actually ship it.

I'd hold off on the complements, we haven't seen the Mercedes on the road yet.

We have seen those cars on the road for a while (this has been over the news for quite a bit already), they just didn't market the tech as L3 due to legal reasons. Also the liability cover clearly shows a level of confidence above that of other car makers.

Yes it is a very limited, but it is still quite a bit ahead of everyone else and if you're thinking we will get full selfdriving on any roads under any conditions in the near future than I think you're kidding yourself. The failure modes I have observed in driver assist (which is much easier than full self driving) with several car makes, really shows the tech is nowhere close yet.

Re: Mercedes becomes the first automaker to sell autonomous cars in the U.S.

#120

Post by sbuttgereit »

prepend wrote: post #95
pb7 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Grouping Waymo with anyone else including Cruise and Tesla is insane. You don’t know what you’re talking about frankly. Waymo is better than anyone else out there by a mile. Source: I take one daily.

Are there human “watchers” in your waymos? Or are they completely autonomous? They just started testing in my city and have humans sitting there not doing anything. So it makes for kind of an uncomfortable ride. Chitchatting with the Uber driver is the worst part of my ride, so I’m looking forward to just robots.

In SF, all the Waymo rides I've taken are completely autonomous... no watchers in the car. This has been the regular mode of operation here for quite awhile.

This isn't to say you won't see Waymo cars with drivers/watchers, but most of those seem to be transiting areas were they don't operate.

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