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Hospitals that make profits should pay taxes

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Re: Hospitals that make profits should pay taxes

#111

Post by user_7832 »

jraph wrote: post #100
happytiger wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

God forbid we don’t monetize the existence and care of life itself.

We should not. It should be provided unconditionally to anyone needing it. Homo sapiens can do better than letting its pairs who can't pay die (slowly). And care givers should be very well paid because they have hard jobs and critically important ones. Making illness profitable creates bad incentives.

> It should be provided unconditionally to anyone needing it.

Correct me if I'm wrong but in many/most countries including the US, hospitals legally will treat emergency patients regardless of whether they can pay or are homeless-levels of broke.

Re: Hospitals that make profits should pay taxes

#113

Post by olliej »

echelon wrote: post #74
aaomidi wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s really amusing when tech people who have a full understanding of singletons and basic statistics always refer to themselves when making a broader statement about society. I always wonder why people seemingly can’t apply their experiences beyond themselves when they already do that day to day at work. A lot of “personal decisions” are consequences of society. Depending on where you are in society, you’re going to…

> I always wonder why people seemingly can’t apply their experiences beyond themselves I grew up lower middle class, and I didn't have it easy. I have no idea who my birth parents were. I had an abusive father. I was bullied and beaten relentlessly by the other children that didn't like on-the-spectrum kids. I didn't party like those that abused me, I withdrew into myself and turned that into hard work. So when I see…

... I had it tough, therefore others should too? What if those others had it tougher than you? have you apologized to them for having it so much easier?

Or, hear me out, maybe the goal should be for tomorrow to be better than today, or yesterday, and that definitionally means a lot of stuff gets easier.

Complaining as you're doing here is the same as saying "this cancer treatment should be banned because I lost family members to cancer when it wasn't available, and it's unfair for cancer patients today to have it easier than we did"

Also as an addendum because you're pulling the I had it tough card: my parents had me as teenagers, then they were uni students with no money until I was 6 or 7, and I was deaf, had severe asthma, and so was relentlessly bullied due to a lisp I had because, you know, I was deaf until I was 5. We lived in a house that would be better described as a shed - corrugated steel walls and siding, etc we were not anywhere near "middle class". Guess what: I still think people should not have to go through that just because I did.

JFC.

Re: Hospitals that make profits should pay taxes

#114

Post by echelon »

trust_bt_verify wrote: post #101
echelon wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I always wonder why people seemingly can’t apply their experiences beyond themselves I grew up lower middle class, and I didn't have it easy. I have no idea who my birth parents were. I had an abusive father. I was bullied and beaten relentlessly by the other children that didn't like on-the-spectrum kids. I didn't party like those that abused me, I withdrew into myself and turned that into hard work. So when I see…

What are they demanding that you are not? Everyone wants to be healthy and they want a medical system which helps them get there. If partying is a problem, they should be able to talk to a doctor about it, and it should be paid for as a part of the services provided by society.

> If partying is a problem, they should be able to talk to a doctor about it, and it should be paid for as a part of the services provided by society.

I feel like I'm on an alien planet here. We should pay for people to get lifestyle advice?

This is malinvestment. Put that money into research instead.

Re: Hospitals that make profits should pay taxes

#115

Post by konschubert »

missedthecue wrote: post #35
jama211 wrote: post #4

Wait… they don’t already? What is even going on over there?

If they are for-profit they do. HCA Hospitals is the biggest for-profit and they paid $1.6 billion in taxes last year. A lot of hospitals are non-profits or not-for-profits. Profits they make must legally go toward furthering their stated cause and cannot be paid out as dividends.

But. They can be paid as salaries. :)

Re: Hospitals that make profits should pay taxes

#116

Post by iscrewyou »

throw0101c wrote: post #50
iscrewyou wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are religious organizations that own hospitals. I was flabbergasted when I found out about this recently. My first thought was how they’ve got a perfect system to avoid all taxes. Edit: it seems like the typical derailment is happening when it comes to religion. The topic is about taxes. I mentioned taxes. Not if religious organizations should own hospitals.

> There are religious organizations that own hospitals. I was flabbergasted when I found out about this recently. Why would you be surprised at this? In (e.g.) Christianity, caring for the poor and sick has been one of the central tenants since its inception, so why wouldn't formal institutions be organized doing so? Before the welfare state—which is a fairly recent invention—the largest organization would have been…

Great points. But you missed the mark. The discussion is about taxes not if religions should own hospitals. The same poor people you mention have to pay taxes while the religious organizations get special cuts. If we are blind to how profitable and mutually beneficial relationships hospitals and insurance companies have, there is nothing else to discuss.

Re: Hospitals that make profits should pay taxes

#118

Post by samus »

xkcdxckd wrote: post #85
lupire wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It gets into more arcane policy than clear economic effects. Why are dividends taxed, but not investments in a shell company that collects dividends? Corporations aren't natural people (spare me the inane conflation of "legal person" with "natural person", everyone who doesn't understand why those two concepts have distinct legal names), so there is no inherent reason why there's any need to tax organizations instead…

The dividend deduction avoids double-taxation, that should be obvious. The dividend-issuing organization pays taxes on its income; that income is then distributed effectively post-tax (although the exact % dividend deduction depends on ownership percentage). Why should a parent corporation have to pay taxes twice just because of its corporate structure?

Such corporate structures are often set up for the express purpose of optimizing tax. Replacing corporate tax with dividend tax would remove incentives from setting up such structures, which is a good thing.

Apart from that, double taxation is a reality for natural persons since they have to pay income tax and VAT. Corporations are usually not subject to the latter.

Re: Hospitals that make profits should pay taxes

#119

Post by araes »

jama211 wrote: post #4

Wait… they don’t already? What is even going on over there?

Had the same thought when I read the title. Then "Ah, the old non-profit that's really a for-profit in disguise." A tale as old as dimes (and nickels). Bricks also (the gold variety).

Notably, article written by: Marty Makary, M.D., M.P.H., professor at the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine and Carey Business School. Even some of the doctors don't seem to like the situation much.

Be weird being a doctor where you didn't like your own hospital's priorities very much, except I read those doctor/nursing stories all the time. The UK situation's been so depressing I mostly avoid those articles when I check the Guardian.

The profit motive (or disguised non-profit cousin) has also been leading to what seems like not sane work hours of 12+ shifts in a lot of cases, which is another issue [1]. The nurses seem to hate it, the staff say its not safe, yet the profit says 12h shifts.

[1] https://human-resources-health.biomedcentral.com/articles/10...

Re: Hospitals that make profits should pay taxes

#120

Post by bugbuddy »

sega_sai wrote: post #81
Mountain_Skies wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like universities?

At least with universities there is a semblance of a free market/competition/choice. I.e. you can compare universities etc. While with healthcare, nobody goes checking for yelp reviews of ambulance companies when they break their leg.

But the government broke the university pricing model by guaranteeing all student loans are practically non-dischargeable through bankruptcy and then double down on their stupidity with forgiving those student loans. The government when led by naive, busy body do-gooders almost always reach the lowest optimal point.
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