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Perhaps they aren’t pressing those charges precisely because they believe they wouldn’t have a strong case, then.
Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US
111–120 of 225 posts
Re: Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
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> It is absurd, he should be on a flight right now. For the crime of reporting information that embarrassed the US government.
> For the crime of reporting information that embarrassed the US government.
let me fix it:
For reporting on a bunch of war criminals sitting in a shipping container in Nevada drone striking brown combatants.
also let's not forget that what we see here is propaganda at its best. Anyone in InfoSec in the West who has in 2012 been outraged by what Snowden revealed, and by what Wikileaks helped publish, has meanwhile condemned the whistleblowers and sided with the terrorists in Washington.
Americans are the most propagandized[1][2] people on the planet, and compared to Russians living under Putin, or Chinese under Xi, ... they're totally oblivious to it.
As Jacques Ellul says[3], well made propaganda is invisible to the person who are the target of it (while usually visible to everyone else).
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith%E2%80%93Mundt_Act
[2] https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/07/14/u-s-repeals-propaganda-...
Re: Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
Certainly the difference between a normal UK jail and indefinite solitary confinement with possibility for "enhanced interrogation" in the US is not pointless.
We still have the 8th and 14th Amendments. He's not going to get tortured.
And what did those Amendments do in Guantanamo Bay and CIA blacksites?
Re: Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It is absurd, he should be on a flight right now. For the crime of reporting information that embarrassed the US government.
Yes, it is considered a cardinal sin to discredit authority through embarrassment. It may not be an official crime, but they will make it feel that way. This isn't unique to governments. Try discrediting any authority figure with embarassment (parent, teacher, manager, police) and watch what happens. The result somewhat irrational and ego driven, but it's relatively consistent.
You know that's not true because if the US govt were what you seem to allege (extradites and arrests mere critics) then you wouldn't be safe to post this here.
It's also a national pastime to crap on the government. Are you not aware that thousands of reporters and millions of people embarrass the US government every day?
Re: Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
How is extradition a kidnapping plot?
Assange's team brought evidence that the USA had a kidnapping/assassination plot in case he attempted to flee to Russia. They brought this as obvious evidence that he will not be safe in US custody - they were already willing to kidnap or kill him without a trial. This should prevent his extradition from the UK to the USA, as the UK in principle doesn't extradite prisoners to countries where their safety and UK judic…
https://news.yahoo.com/kidnapping-assassination-and-a-london...
From reading that article it doesn't sound like there was any plot. Mike Pompeo wanted such a thing, but it was never approved. It was hotly contested and never attempted. The article also made it sound like Russia had more of a plot in action to move Assange to Russia.
So there was about as much plot for the US to kidnap Assange as there was to make Mexico to pay for a wall. Hot air from politicians that just evaporates.
Re: Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US
#116As someone who wants to see Assange go free, I continue to believe the best outcome here is for him to be extradited and face trial in the US. I do not think the government's case is strong enough to convict him, and his being acquitted at trial would be by far the best outcome possible here. The fact that he has been imprisoned in the UK without trial or conviction for the last four years is insane (he has been impr…
The US has exerted unbelievable pressure to ensure Assange remains a non-threat. Just because they're happy with the current state of affairs doesn't mean Assange has anything to gain by "facing the court and just getting it over with".
The best outcome would be for the UK to uphold its own treaties, refuse to extradite Assange, and allow him to walk free. Anything less would be a travesty and miscarriage of justice.
The idea that the US would try him in the Eastern District of Virginia "Espionage Court", only to throw up their hands in defeat when Assange's lawyers point out that his persecution is illegal, is laughable. If he is extradited, he will rot in a supermax prison, which from first hand testimony[1] is far worse than even Belmarsh.
https://www.declassifieduk.org/the-last-days-of-julian-assan...
Re: Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US
#117As someone who wants to see Assange go free, I continue to believe the best outcome here is for him to be extradited and face trial in the US. I do not think the government's case is strong enough to convict him, and his being acquitted at trial would be by far the best outcome possible here. The fact that he has been imprisoned in the UK without trial or conviction for the last four years is insane (he has been impr…
> I continue to believe the best outcome here is for him to be extradited and face trial in the US.
Lol... They would send him in a secret military prison... That would be the worst outcome possible... He should have went where Snowden wanted to go or where he is by accident
Re: Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
> very well might have resulted in the deaths of US officials US spies that knew the risks of their profession.
It also leaked the identity of informants. When I served in Afghanistan the locals would tip us off about ambushes or IEDs. Should those people be killed for warning us and potentially saving my life?
I think your point is fully valid. I would balance it with the notion that they (people undertaking huge personal risk) would be better protected - if there was less natural pressure to acquire/release info that gets over-classified to protect political interests.¹
Stated otherwise, if US Gov could be relied on to honor it's ethical obligations to taxpayers and release the entirety of info that it ought, I argue that fewer unqualified people would feel responsibility to take that upon themselves.
¹ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War_documents_leak#Civili...
Re: Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US
#119As someone who wants to see Assange go free, I continue to believe the best outcome here is for him to be extradited and face trial in the US. I do not think the government's case is strong enough to convict him, and his being acquitted at trial would be by far the best outcome possible here. The fact that he has been imprisoned in the UK without trial or conviction for the last four years is insane (he has been impr…
Honestly, do you believe he would receive a fair and impartial trial in the united states?
From your question, I take it that you do not believe this is possible. I certainly do. It might be worth further interrogating why you believe that he would not get a fair and impartial trial.
That said, I don't believe that a fair and impartial trail will guarantee an acquittal. But although the national security apparatus is arrayed against him, there's still a judge and a jury and a trial -- this will not be a military tribunal.
The closest comparisons to his situation would be Ellsberg, and less like Manning or Winner, both of whom were employees of the US government. Ellsberg's case was dismissed, and Winer pled guilty; only Manning was convicted at trial.
Being extradited would also be his best chance of being free on bail during trial, although this outcome, despite representing his best chance, is not very likely.
Re: Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It is absurd, he should be on a flight right now. For the crime of reporting information that embarrassed the US government.
Yes, it is considered a cardinal sin to discredit authority through embarrassment. It may not be an official crime, but they will make it feel that way. This isn't unique to governments. Try discrediting any authority figure with embarassment (parent, teacher, manager, police) and watch what happens. The result somewhat irrational and ego driven, but it's relatively consistent.
most effective way of dissent is to ridicule and embarrass them. Why bother with challenging or "debunking" their lies when you can just make fun of them.
sadly Assange was not a "funny man" and totally lacked the gift of humor. So the only tool he had was his rightousness coupled with his will to embarrass.
Sadly for him he is a self obsessed and attention seeking cretin. Would he have had any charisma or the gift of humor the outrage of what was done against him would be a lot bigger. One can only dream of the damage that could have been done against these criminals in the US and Britain (and the EU) by somebody who knows how to package these things into better. The raggedy Wikileaks outlet was never going to be capable of this. A shame because anyone who believes in civil rights all over the world deserves better.