Barcelona’s Sagrada Familia will be completed in 2026 • Hacker News Board

Re: Barcelona’s Sagrada Familia will be completed in 2026

#111

Post by bigbillheck » Mon, Mar 25, 2024, 2:34 PM UTC

gravescale wrote: post #109

hannasanarion wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The purpose of most buildings is to be useful, not to look pretty in pictures. > Modern architecture has destroyed our cities. It's hard to find a building build after WO2 that's actually pretty That's because the things that get preserved are the things that are pretty. You think Romans built their outhouses and warehouses and cheap apartments to look like the colosseum? No, that shit was ugly too, that's why it's n…

I know the economics must somehow make sense, but it's still hard to wrap my head around the fact that even with quite literally once-unimaginable computing power, semi-magical modern materials, structural theory, decades of recorded research and testing, international standardisation, leaps in simulations, optimisation, robotics, pneumatics, hydraulics, electronics, networking, transmission, logistics and supply cha…

"Won't", not "can't".

Re: Barcelona’s Sagrada Familia will be completed in 2026

#112

Post by spaniard89277 » Mon, Mar 25, 2024, 2:34 PM UTC

hannasanarion wrote: post #70

wouldbecouldbe wrote: post #48

Looking at the surrounding building of the Sagrada, just makes me wonder again, what the hell happened to modern architecture. Modern architecture has destroyed our cities. It's hard to find a building build after WO2 that's actually pretty, let alone an entire neighborhood. Nothing compared the historic cities of Europe. In a time when it's cheaper then ever to build, they've not been able to build anything even clo…

The purpose of most buildings is to be useful, not to look pretty in pictures. > Modern architecture has destroyed our cities. It's hard to find a building build after WO2 that's actually pretty That's because the things that get preserved are the things that are pretty. You think Romans built their outhouses and warehouses and cheap apartments to look like the colosseum? No, that shit was ugly too, that's why it's n…

> The purpose of most buildings is to be useful, not to look pretty in pictures.

Architecture is the only art where you're forced to participate. So we could pretty much say the opposite, buildings should, among other things, contribute to make a place nice. Or at least not make it more miserable.

> What do you think Barcelona is?

Most of Spanish cities are built with crap buildings dating above the 60s. Just concrete blocks, in some cities even with just plain grey and humidity stains. It doesn't matter how historic the city is, because the "historic center" it's just a small spot surrounded by uglyness.

Re: Barcelona’s Sagrada Familia will be completed in 2026

#113

Post by prmoustache » Mon, Mar 25, 2024, 2:35 PM UTC

mhd wrote: post #71

simonbarker87 wrote: post #26

I feel like the only person in the world who was thoroughly underwhelmed by it and really don’t see how its future space requirements for a staircase can be justified. This isn’t me trying to be edgy, I like cathedrals, this one (and his general style) just left me cold. Duomo in Milan was far better imo.

I liked other cathedrals better, too, but I got a lot out of it by contrasting the medieval versions with this. I mean, you got a lot of the same motivations, just with different art styles and materials. Reflecting on that, it made me change the way I view older churches. Granted, the LOTR of Lothlorien helped, too (I only saw the Sagrada Familia in 2022). To past generations, "Gothic" means something quite differen…

It is not like there is one medieval/gothic style though.

Compare Chartes in France, Firenze in Toscana or the mosque-cathedral of Cordóba and you have entirely different styles in and out.

I like the Sagrada Familia for its singularity but it indeed looks like it has been created by a child with modeling compound.

Re: Barcelona’s Sagrada Familia will be completed in 2026

#114

Post by Tabular-Iceberg » Mon, Mar 25, 2024, 2:36 PM UTC

rsynnott wrote: post #52

pradn wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is this odd split in American society that makes this possible. You can go through your entire life, end up a professional journalist at the Times and not actually have asked someone about their sincerely held faith and practice. Kids rarely talked about religion in HS, outside of like the Interfaith club. (I ran my high school's and we had an annual panel of a rep from each major religion. I was was quite popu…

Well, the other thing is that many, perhaps most, religious people don't know very much about their religion. Very few Catholics would know the difference between a cathedral and a minor basilica, say (which is what started this thread off in the first place). Actually, I'd argue that this isn't a religious question, anyway; it's administrivia.

This is correct. Catholics pretty much gave up on talking about the faith to anyone, whether to the general public or even their own children during the 1960s.

And it’s not only administrivia, for example only half of US Catholics have heard about transubstantiation and only a third believe in it. [1]

1. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2019/08/05/transubst...

Re: Barcelona’s Sagrada Familia will be completed in 2026

#115

Post by spaniard89277 » Mon, Mar 25, 2024, 2:37 PM UTC

gravescale wrote: post #109

hannasanarion wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The purpose of most buildings is to be useful, not to look pretty in pictures. > Modern architecture has destroyed our cities. It's hard to find a building build after WO2 that's actually pretty That's because the things that get preserved are the things that are pretty. You think Romans built their outhouses and warehouses and cheap apartments to look like the colosseum? No, that shit was ugly too, that's why it's n…

I know the economics must somehow make sense, but it's still hard to wrap my head around the fact that even with quite literally once-unimaginable computing power, semi-magical modern materials, structural theory, decades of recorded research and testing, international standardisation, leaps in simulations, optimisation, robotics, pneumatics, hydraulics, electronics, networking, transmission, logistics and supply cha…

We can do that. But we can't make new space.

Re: Barcelona’s Sagrada Familia will be completed in 2026

#116

Post by rsynnott » Mon, Mar 25, 2024, 2:37 PM UTC

giraffe_lady wrote: post #98

rsynnott wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the other thing is that many, perhaps most, religious people don't know very much about their religion. Very few Catholics would know the difference between a cathedral and a minor basilica, say (which is what started this thread off in the first place). Actually, I'd argue that this isn't a religious question, anyway; it's administrivia.

Is that true? I wouldn't know what a minor basilica is per se but I definitely know what a cathedral is. I'm orthodox but I think nearly all lay orthodox christians can name their own bishop and the cathedral of his seat, the definition of cathedral being kind of implicit in that administrative awareness. Maybe it's different for catholics? I'll ask some, I am curious now.

I don't think most Catholics would know what a minor basilica was, and I'd expect most to misidentify the Sagrada Familia as a cathedral.

And that's before you even get into pro-cathedrals and things...

70% of Ireland is nominally Catholic, and look at the confusion over this, say: https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/dublin/2023/06/22/dublin-...

Like, the church had to come out and clarify that Dublin didn't have a cathedral.

Re: Barcelona’s Sagrada Familia will be completed in 2026

#117

Post by prmoustache » Mon, Mar 25, 2024, 2:39 PM UTC

spaniard89277 wrote: post #105

prmoustache wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, most of the 60's/70's building look like shit from outside but are pretty nice and super funcional from the inside while some older ones were made for an era where people had huge hotel particuliers with servants and stuff and the current appartments have been build by splitting those in parts. Those appartments that aren't as well made/functionnal despite being nice to look at and having lots of vertic…

In Spain it's not only 60s/70s, pretty much everything build between the 60s and the 90s is not only ugly AF, but very low quality. And Barcelona is not even the worst offender. In northern spanish cities there's a lot of grey in the buildings, with basically no insulation in a humid and cold climate. My GF used to joke it was colder inside her home than outside. After the new construction code in the early 00s the q…

Well I hate to say it as I am also living in Spain, in the south, but there is definitely a culture of making stuff with the minimum effort and a lack of focus on quality.

And I too do joke that it feels colder inside than outside from mid november to mid february.

Re: Barcelona’s Sagrada Familia will be completed in 2026

#118

Post by shepherdjerred » Mon, Mar 25, 2024, 2:41 PM UTC

dncornholio wrote: post #45

loloquwowndueo wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh I see you’re here for the downvotes!

Terrible, people should be able to express their point of view without being downvoted IMO. There is a lot of weight in OP's post and should not be dismissed because people don't agree.

HN encourages downvoting for disagreement: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16131314

Re: Barcelona’s Sagrada Familia will be completed in 2026

#119

Post by whereismyacc » Mon, Mar 25, 2024, 2:42 PM UTC

gorbypark wrote: post #85

mgkimsal wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe not on the design and original plans? IIRC they're trying to do everything according to original designs, which would not be 'collaboration', just... implementation. It's been over 30 years since I was there though - some friends who went more recently said a lot more has been done since then. Might be fun to go back and look for the differences, but I do not remember much detail, just a sense of 'big'.

If I am not mistaken, the original designs were destroyed during the Spanish Civil War.

Yeah iirc his studio burned down at the hands of anarchist vandalists.

Building some great indulgent monument to god wasn't exactly uncontroversial in the political climate at the time, as I understand it.

Anyway, his plans wouldn't have been detailed enough to just go and build it. There was a lot of interpretation to be done in any case.

Re: Barcelona’s Sagrada Familia will be completed in 2026

#120

Post by nemo44x » Mon, Mar 25, 2024, 2:45 PM UTC

mikey_p wrote: post #95

wouldbecouldbe wrote: post #48

Looking at the surrounding building of the Sagrada, just makes me wonder again, what the hell happened to modern architecture. Modern architecture has destroyed our cities. It's hard to find a building build after WO2 that's actually pretty, let alone an entire neighborhood. Nothing compared the historic cities of Europe. In a time when it's cheaper then ever to build, they've not been able to build anything even clo…

Check out Brent Hull on YouTube who is answering this very question. His basic premise is that post WWII the focus on efficiency and mass production ruined the craftsmanship that went into older buildings.

I love Brent and his redesigns of existing buildings are really eye opening. It really shows how bad people fail at building traditional buildings today. He makes a compelling argument for why his redesign makes more sense and to my eye the buildings tend to look much better and simpler too. It's based around some basic theory that had served builders well for a long time and has been thrown out to build gaudy things that imitate very poorly.

One of my favorite observations of his is that a modern cheap door isn't even really a door - it's more a simulation of a door than an actual door. It is made of plastic and filled with foam but is made to look like wood and has stiles and rails and fake paneling pressed into the moulding to look like what people think a door looks like. And it comes in a pre-fabricated frame and is installed, not crafted. But it doesn't feel like a door or sound like a door. Just a flimsy thing that closes a passage off. And we admire installers today, not craftsmen.

One thing about him, and I think he acknowledges it, is that efficiency and mass production are why so many more people can live in relatively nice homes today. Not everyone (in fact most people can't) can live in a well crafted home made from the best materials, etc. But I do agree with him that developers could at least try and make things that are rooted in some sense of design principal.