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Paris cycling numbers double in one year thanks to investment

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Re: Paris cycling numbers double in one year thanks to investment

#111
post #54
post #33

Title is misleading... the source Le Monde article states that use of certain bicycle paths has doubled (or tripled) in certain places , as investment has gone into improving these paths. That's great, but kind of obvious that if you build out dedicated bike lanes, cyclists are more likely to prefer them to alternate routes.

Even though it seems obvious you will find the majority of Americans fighting against bike lanes because they think nobody will use it. Having data to show causation like this is genuinely helpful for other countries and cities to follow their lead.

I think a lot of the push back in the US against bike lanes comes from bad bike lanes and a lack of a wholistic solution.

In most places I’ve been, the city will paint a line on a road where cars are going 50mph and call it a bike lane. There is no chance that will get me to start riding a bike. All it does it make the road worse for cars, by making it more narrow, or more likely, losing a lane.

One place I lived did get a protected bike lane going right in front of the building. I still didn’t use it, as it wasn’t really connected to anything else. Everywhere along the route I’d go, I’d simply walk. It wasn’t that far. Everything has to start somewhere, and I hope they build more, but so far drivers see problems without any payoff.

The worst of it was during the pandemic. There were construction barrels all over the city. It was hell to get around by car. I figured they were preparing for construction and ripping up the road. I found out a year later that the barrels were meant to create temporary protected bike lanes so people could get out and ride around to places during the pandemic. Cool… if there has been a single sign to tell people that’s what it was. Instead, it just made drivers mad, and the lanes weren’t used, because people didn’t know what they were for. More space taken from cars with no payoff in terms of reducing traffic through increased biking.

I want good bike infrastructure, but the plans and efforts I keep seeing still don’t seem that good. The useful paths are dangerous and the safe paths aren’t that useful.

Re: Paris cycling numbers double in one year thanks to investment

#112
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> especially for pedestrians as cyclists are less annoying than drivers As an American pedestrian I find cyclists far worse on average than drivers. They far more often ignore traffic signs and I have seen multiple collisions including one that looked quite serious, though luckily no fatalities. On a per person basis my personal annoyance scale goes subway riders have least impact, followed by busses, normal pedestri…

Way less noise though

Sure, that's fair.

Re: Paris cycling numbers double in one year thanks to investment

#113

"I really hope US cities head in this direction" The US is headed on the path of autonomous vehicles as the solution. It's the perfect combination of things our society loves: 1) No new public investment. 2) Continuous, end-to-end air conditioning

Autonomous vehicles will make traffic worse, not better. Now we won’t even need people in cars to create traffic.

Re: Paris cycling numbers double in one year thanks to investment

#114
post #91
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a fitness issue. The netherlands is fairly flat and has a cooler climate than any major US city. It's just not possible to be pedaling up/down hills in any amount of heat/humidity and not get sweaty.

That is an excuse. There are many people in hilly cities that cycle. Not as many as in the Netherlands or in Denmark, but they exist. And even Norther Europe gets days of 30 °C (~90F), and we do not stop cycling, its rather the other way around. So just start cycling in winter, if you want to try.

Northern European climates are not comparable to even mid-atlantic US cities. Take a look at a comparison between Amsterdam and Washington DC. https://weatherspark.com/compare/y/51381~20957/Comparison-of....

Pay special attention to the "Chance of Muggy Conditions" chart.

Re: Paris cycling numbers double in one year thanks to investment

#115
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should that be the case? The amount of sweat is only correlated to the amount of heat generated. Only way to counter sweating is to dress appropriately and/or ride slower.

Cycling economy increases naturally with increased fitness. As with virtually all forms of fitness training. It along with many other factors is why someone can quadruple their possible power output with training. All without melting. Look up cycling economy. Also how much you sweat is a trained response. This is why athletes do heat training before hot events. There is more to it than some oversimplified physics bas…

> All these things are much more significant when going from someone who basically never cycles or exercises, to someone who does.

You could say that I do that every season(well, I walk all year round at least) and my observation is that there's maybe a short period of increased unnecessary movements that I do which produce more sweat, but after two weeks, when I relearn the right movements, it plateaus and sweating is just proportional to energy used - it's lower, but still there.

In any case I noticed that I would need to go frustratingly slow to be appropriately fresh for an office. Even at my leisurely pace of 15km/h I change my shirt when I get back from a ride, because it's simply uncomfortable otherwise.

Re: Paris cycling numbers double in one year thanks to investment

#116
post #109
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> especially for pedestrians as cyclists are less annoying than drivers As an American pedestrian I find cyclists far worse on average than drivers. They far more often ignore traffic signs and I have seen multiple collisions including one that looked quite serious, though luckily no fatalities. On a per person basis my personal annoyance scale goes subway riders have least impact, followed by busses, normal pedestri…

That no fatalities bit is the crucial part. And for quality of life the amount of noise is just much better for bikes, which if you live somewhere with roads and bicycle lanes, you'd love for all the cars to go away and just have bicycles. You just need separates infrastructure, as a pedestrian you should almost never have to share a space with bicycles (or cars for that matter). And if you are on a shared space any…

> as a pedestrian you should almost never have to share a space with bicycles

These collisions are mostly at intersections, which aren't avoidable on a flat surface you would need to go 3D.

I'm in favor of raised sidewalks for pedestrians, but they are relatively pricey infrastructure.

Edit: > That no fatalities bit is the crucial part.

Globally I think the rates are quite a bit lower. But in the US it's closer than it might seem based on how many more drivers there are than cyclists. Cyclist only kill about 4 pedestrians per year in the US, but cyclists are also vastly less common especially on a per mile basis. https://www.nationalworld.com/news/politics/pedestrians-kill...

To be clear I don't this says as much about bikes as it does the biased population of people currently using them.

Re: Paris cycling numbers double in one year thanks to investment

#117

I don’t get how you can make bicycling your only form of transportation, even if the bike travel infrastructure and parking is adequate. When I bicycle, even for a short amount of time like 15 minutes, I sweat, and end up a stinky wet mess at my destination. Especially in the summer. My shoes and pants get dirty from the road and my hair gets wet and messed up especially if it’s raining. So if I’m going anywhere with…

After biking for some months a 15min ride shouldn't get you too sweaty

Yeah, I disagree. During the pandemic I did a year of heavy cycling, including a 525-mile trip over 7 days. While cycling got a lot easier, I didn't stop sweating.

My family is full of heavy sweaters, and I live in states where it gets into the 80s-90s in the summer. My girlfriend however seems to never sweat, even when pushing herself.

Admittedly, I struggle to maintain a "casual speed."

Re: Paris cycling numbers double in one year thanks to investment

#118

I don’t get how you can make bicycling your only form of transportation, even if the bike travel infrastructure and parking is adequate. When I bicycle, even for a short amount of time like 15 minutes, I sweat, and end up a stinky wet mess at my destination. Especially in the summer. My shoes and pants get dirty from the road and my hair gets wet and messed up especially if it’s raining. So if I’m going anywhere with…

> What about going to a restaurant or business meeting or a museum or an appointment with a professional? I also like to find my bicycle where I left it. Which is not an option in many cities. > I honestly don’t know but there are so many cities where people bike everywhere so there must be a solution People have less and less money to spend on a car and fuel/electricity. Many are using bicycles not by choice but bec…

I do have a quite nice (and growing) amount of personal assets, yet I bike everywhere on my now 17 year old bike. My grandpa still has his bike of 60 years (and grandmas of 55). Of course will a $10k bike more likely be stolen over a $100 bike. Though proper bike infrastructure also lessens that risk quite a bit. Or where you personally live is an international crime hotspot.

Re: Paris cycling numbers double in one year thanks to investment

#119

I don’t get how you can make bicycling your only form of transportation, even if the bike travel infrastructure and parking is adequate. When I bicycle, even for a short amount of time like 15 minutes, I sweat, and end up a stinky wet mess at my destination. Especially in the summer. My shoes and pants get dirty from the road and my hair gets wet and messed up especially if it’s raining. So if I’m going anywhere with…

They're living in places where the weather is cool, so they're not getting sweaty on their bikes.

Re: Paris cycling numbers double in one year thanks to investment

#120
post #116
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That no fatalities bit is the crucial part. And for quality of life the amount of noise is just much better for bikes, which if you live somewhere with roads and bicycle lanes, you'd love for all the cars to go away and just have bicycles. You just need separates infrastructure, as a pedestrian you should almost never have to share a space with bicycles (or cars for that matter). And if you are on a shared space any…

> as a pedestrian you should almost never have to share a space with bicycles These collisions are mostly at intersections, which aren't avoidable on a flat surface you would need to go 3D. I'm in favor of raised sidewalks for pedestrians, but they are relatively pricey infrastructure. Edit: > That no fatalities bit is the crucial part. Globally I think the rates are quite a bit lower. But in the US it's closer than…

If we are comparing against cars though this is a no brainer. Cars and trucks are extremely hard on infrastructure while people and bikes are basically free. Go 3D!
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