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Porn Sites Need Age-Verification Systems in Texas, Court Rules

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Re: Porn Sites Need Age-Verification Systems in Texas, Court Rules

#111

Post by freedomben »

soco wrote: post #108
freedomben wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems outrageous to consider a national firewall in the United States, but you're absolutely right. That is where this has to go. The saddest part to me, is that it's probably going to happen. All they have to do to sell it to the the average person is to say that it's to combat CSAM and it will be palatable. They will start by making it very small, and limiting the scope to only CSAM. Then as new use cases arise,…

So the Great Wall of China is bad because it confines China, and the Great Wall of the USA is good because it confines the USA*. Oof, this kind of development is quite unsettling, especially because we see where is China going with it... (* land of the free)

Yep, agreed. I think a big driver behind it is that the culture in the US is one that is much more favoring of safety over security. The reactions to Covid certainly didn't help things as it made "freedom" a partisan issue that is now framed as selfishness rather than a high ideal. (and truthfully, selfish people did often use "freedom" as a banner to enablement, but that doesn't negate the importance of freedom as a principle, nor does it justify it's abolishment or abdication IMHO).

Re: Porn Sites Need Age-Verification Systems in Texas, Court Rules

#112

Post by stickfigure »

CPLX wrote: post #104
stickfigure wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a parent. Like the person you responded to, I control purchases on my child's devices. It's not difficult, and if you need help with that - or any other parenting advice - just ask.

How old are your children? It seems exceedingly unlikely to me that you’re able to prevent your children from being exposed to as much pornography as they would like once they’re past the age of 12 or so.

[dead]

Re: Porn Sites Need Age-Verification Systems in Texas, Court Rules

#113

Post by caeril »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #70
SuperNinKenDo wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really believe the negative effect has been nothing? I totally oppose this law, but I think claiming that widespread access to internet pornography has had no ill effect at all is denying your own lying eyes.

You're free to list these effects. Obviously the "sex crazed delusional woman abusers" theory didn't play out, ironically domestic abuse fell off cliff as internet porn became widespread. Not saying they are necessarily related, but the prude hot heads of the early 00's were _completely_ wrong. https://ovc.ojp.gov/sites/g/files/xyckuh226/files/ncvrw2018/...

Yes, and sexual assault also declined along with porn proliferation:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/all-about-sex/201601...

But this isn't a popular thing to raise because it contradicts the insane zero-evidence misandrist talking point we've had shouted for decades that rape is about "male power" or "controlling women". Turns out it's actually about "being horny with criminal intent".

Re: Porn Sites Need Age-Verification Systems in Texas, Court Rules

#114

Post by Geeek »

amenhotep wrote: post #89
sickofparadox wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can understand being opposed to these laws on the principle of freedom of information and freedom from government interference, but why are you explicitly hoping for specifically children to receive pornographic material? That's a very strange thing to wish.

Presumably because he was a kid and remembers what it was like.

Now, do you have any evidence that he was a kid in the past?

Re: Porn Sites Need Age-Verification Systems in Texas, Court Rules

#115

Post by friend_and_foe »

karaterobot wrote: post #88

> "the age-verification requirement is rationally related to the government's legitimate interest in preventing minors' access to pornography. Therefore, the age-verification requirement does not violate the First Amendment." The idea that the government takes an interest in whether a minor views pornography doesn't make sense to me. I can see why their parents would take an interest, but it's harder for me to justif…

That's democracy for you. The government is the solution to all ills, if enough people want a rule then the rule becomes real. Parents are the government in a democracy.

I'm partial to a republic, a set of difficult to change rules that protect us against mass hysteria and tyrrany of the majority, subjecting us all to the will of the majority in potentially every fascet of our lives is a recipe for disaster. There are some things that are nobody's business but mine, restricting the scope of the civic process is an absolute necessity IMO.

Re: Porn Sites Need Age-Verification Systems in Texas, Court Rules

#117

Post by rstuart4133 »

freedomben wrote: post #29
Buttons840 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now we begin discussing a national firewall. With talk of regulating TikTok, I've wondered what the US would do if TikTok sent a notification saying, essentially, "just connect to our servers in China". The kids would do it, and then what? There are a few Internet regulations I've seen discussed that would require a national firewall to achieve their stated goals.

It seems outrageous to consider a national firewall in the United States, but you're absolutely right. That is where this has to go. The saddest part to me, is that it's probably going to happen. All they have to do to sell it to the the average person is to say that it's to combat CSAM and it will be palatable. They will start by making it very small, and limiting the scope to only CSAM. Then as new use cases arise,…

> It seems outrageous to consider a national firewall in the United States, but you're absolutely right. That is where this has to go.

Maybe not a "firewall", but the USA (and in fact the entire world) has effectively already banned communicating some types of data. Pictures of naked children is the prime example. You would have to be a brave man to have a picture of your child frollicing in the sea naked for the first time.

To put it into perspective, 30 years ago that was perfectly fine where I live in Australia. Everybody understood the photo just captured a step in the child's life; that time when water was new to them but clothes didn't matter. It's a moment a parent might want to share with relatives.

That and a lot of other things were innocently posted to the internet in the beginning. Then a collective "internet consensus on morality" seemed to take hold and they quietly vanished. No firewalls were needed.

It's been fascinating to watch in real time how a group of humans develop a common morality, despite being separated by distance, cultures, and ages. I think the power of it is underappreciated. After all, it has effectively banned what had been perfectly acceptable behaviour in Australia for decades. This was driven home when someone in Australia was jailed for having cartoons in their possession, parodies of the Simpsons. Just a couple of decades ago that was unthinkable.

But back to firewalls - so when are they needed? It seems only when a minority was to change the majorities moral stance on some issue, but can't convince them to just "do it" of their own accord. So they force it on them with a firewall. I doubt that's going to work too well over the long term in a democracy.

Re: Porn Sites Need Age-Verification Systems in Texas, Court Rules

#118

Post by zzz999 »

lolinder wrote: post #40
MiddleEndian wrote: post #17

What counts as a porn site? Reddit, Twitter, etc. all have porn on them. Definitely backwards for free speech and the open internet. Also backwards for privacy and security. If anything, sites should be prevented from collecting identifying info unless absolutely necessary.

More than 1/3 of the site has to be porn before the law kicks in [0]. [0] https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/88R/billtext/html/HB01181H...

So to get around this, porn sites have to post 2/3 of fake content generated by LLMs?

Re: Porn Sites Need Age-Verification Systems in Texas, Court Rules

#119

Post by zzz999 »

TeckPerspecc wrote: post #4

Would be better to just require all porn sites to be payment-only. Deals with addiction as well as child access. Right now, this sort of regulation seems like the purpose is a de-anonymised internet in a format that Republicans can accept.

Got 3 children under 10 and they all have a bank card

Re: Porn Sites Need Age-Verification Systems in Texas, Court Rules

#120

Post by BeFlatXIII »

amenhotep wrote: post #89
sickofparadox wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can understand being opposed to these laws on the principle of freedom of information and freedom from government interference, but why are you explicitly hoping for specifically children to receive pornographic material? That's a very strange thing to wish.

Presumably because he was a kid and remembers what it was like.

Pretty much this. That and I'm suspicious of the claim that the content in online pornography is worse than the selection available 20 years ago. "Online pornography is teaching our boys to be misogynists who are bad in bed. Yes, it's worse than the stuff you watched with your friends as a teen. Source? It's obvious to see (a.k.a. just trust me, bro)."
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