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Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

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Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#111

Post by samatman »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #93
robertlagrant wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So? There would only be one "brake pad salesman" left, who would sell indestructible brake pads to car manufacturers, and all the others would go bust.

Right. It's not like they can form a cartel and collectively decide how long a brake pad should last, just like the incandescent light bulb cartel [1] of the early 20th century or the NAND flash memory cartel of the 21st century. Mate you're far too naive to believe what you're saying. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel

A theoretical cartel can do precisely nothing, since it's a mere mental construct. It takes an actual cartel to fix prices (ignoring as a distraction the fact that the link you provide gives several good reasons to think that planned obsolescence was not the primary factor in the lifetime of incandescent bulbs).

There is no brake pad cartel. If there is, demonstrate it. If not, again, an imaginary cartel can only do imaginary things. It can't do real things.

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#112

Post by _aavaa_ »

thebruce87m wrote: post #108
wyldfire wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would that happen? EVs use their brakes much less often. when I read the article it occurred to me that this could eventually used to justify policy that would subsidize EVs more than they are.

The article has this statement: > The new study reveals a problem that may grow as electric cars become more and more common over the next several decades. Electric cars, Smith explained, are not truly zero-emission vehicles, so municipalities need to think about strategies to reduce emissions from brake use as well as tailpipes. Which completely ignores regenerative braking.

The first sentence of the abstract also shows a technically correct statement easily used for disingenuous framings:

“The coming decades promise a transition from internal combustion engines to electric, and with it a greater relative contribution of nonexhaust sources to urban air pollution.”

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#114

Post by FirmwareBurner »

samatman wrote: post #111
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. It's not like they can form a cartel and collectively decide how long a brake pad should last, just like the incandescent light bulb cartel [1] of the early 20th century or the NAND flash memory cartel of the 21st century. Mate you're far too naive to believe what you're saying. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel

A theoretical cartel can do precisely nothing, since it's a mere mental construct. It takes an actual cartel to fix prices (ignoring as a distraction the fact that the link you provide gives several good reasons to think that planned obsolescence was not the primary factor in the lifetime of incandescent bulbs). There is no brake pad cartel. If there is, demonstrate it. If not, again, an imaginary cartel can only do…

I'm gonna let you reflect on what you just said.

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#115

Post by aceazzameen »

ThinkBeat wrote: post #49

This will come from all ground transportation sources, right? Busses, trains, trams, subways etc. Probably the heavier the vehicle the more particles are likely to be produced?

Being on or near a train platform and you can see brake dust caked on everything. Probably dust combined with grease. It's worse looking than roads.

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#116

Post by ninininino »

ThinkBeat wrote: post #49

This will come from all ground transportation sources, right? Busses, trains, trams, subways etc. Probably the heavier the vehicle the more particles are likely to be produced?

All wheeled ground transportation sources that use brakes. Legged vehicles and ground effect vehicles would not suffer from this problem, and we shouldn't necessarily assume the wheel will be the forever solution, we should not fail to dream.

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#117

Post by TylerE »

alliao wrote: post #113

air filtration isn't expensive nor hard... last generation cleaned water, perhaps we should clean the air. start small, indoors and transportation, reduce exposure simple stuff and just gotta do it.

The problem is that all the bad stuff from cars by definition is OUTIDE, where it's essentially impossible to filter besides wearing a properly fitting respirator.

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#118

Post by Reason077 »

daft_pink wrote: post #87

Just want to point out that most electric and hybrid vehicles use regenerative braking most of the time and only use real brakes at very slow speeds or in emergencies. So it might be totally misleading to say that electric vehicles are the problem, when they are probably the solution.

Not only does regenerative braking itself reduce PM emissions, the reduced demand on friction brakes is enabling some EVs, such as the Volkswagen ID3 and ID4, to switch to drum brakes.

Due to their enclosed nature, drum brakes greatly reduce PM emissions compared to disc brakes.

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#119

Post by dzhiurgis »

qwertox wrote: post #21
gr2m wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I drive an EV for over a year, I barely use the break any more. Single pedal driving is wonderful

Curious: How do you roll towards a red traffic light, do you somehow push a "neutral" button?

Release the pedal. Car figures out where the next car or stop line is (I think. Even when you're not using radar cruise control).

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#120

Post by dzhiurgis »

IncreasePosts wrote: post #39
u320 wrote: post #3

Electric vehicles are heavier, which means they must spend more brake pads to stop. But they also use regenerative breaking, which reduces pad wear. So I'm not sure if they make it worse or not.

Tire wear and tear, which can also give off nasty particles, is also increased with the generally increased weight of EVs

30% higher tyre wear vs 90% less brake wear && 100% less cancer fumes
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