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Linux Touchpad Like MacBook Update: 2023 Progress on Smooth Scrolling

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Re: Linux Touchpad Like MacBook Update: 2023 Progress on Smooth Scrolling

#111

Post by hedgehog »

jeffbee wrote: post #35
al_borland wrote: post #6

Why does this seem like such a hard problem to solve for everyone that isn’t Apple, when Apple seemingly solved the Trackpad over a decade ago? Is this it? An unknown ROI? >the highly uncertain ROI for trying to align touchpad acceleration has prevented us from proposing a system change to the default Linux settings. I can only speak for myself, but I gave up using trackpads on anything that isn’t a MacBook many year…

It's not a problem for Linux distributions that jettison all the GNU beliefs. ChromeOS has had perfect multitouch input with gestures for years. They ship opaque binaries from Synaptics or whomever and forget about the politics.

It's a little more than that, they then added subpixel and momentum scrolling support to Chrome that bypasses X11 and does something custom [1]. Integration problems like this one that require a bunch of coordination are harder to do in open source land.

1. https://github.com/dnschneid/crouton/issues/244

Re: Linux Touchpad Like MacBook Update: 2023 Progress on Smooth Scrolling

#112

Post by ralphist »

blauditore wrote: post #51
al_borland wrote: post #6

Why does this seem like such a hard problem to solve for everyone that isn’t Apple, when Apple seemingly solved the Trackpad over a decade ago? Is this it? An unknown ROI? >the highly uncertain ROI for trying to align touchpad acceleration has prevented us from proposing a system change to the default Linux settings. I can only speak for myself, but I gave up using trackpads on anything that isn’t a MacBook many year…

I'm pretty sure there's some bias present due to adaption. I'm very much used to some non-MB touchpad, and whenever I use a MB it feels worse (too slow and mushy). I feel similar pain even when switching operating systems on the same laptop, which almost certainly has to do with muscle memory. In that sense "getting it right" for Apple users would mean other manufacturers would need to exactly copy Apple's behavior,…

I hated the trackpads I used before buying a macbook, and one of those was a high-end XPS, the best I've seen on Windows. The mac ones are definitely an improvement. Both hardware and software feel better.

Re: Linux Touchpad Like MacBook Update: 2023 Progress on Smooth Scrolling

#114

Post by TonyTrapp »

nerdjon wrote: post #109
TonyTrapp wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even more interesting is when I see my partner try to do something on my Mac using a trackpad, he seems... apprehensive? Like he is so afraid of doing the wrong thing and for me this trackpad has never done something I didn't want it to do. Like without even thinking about it while I was re-reading this comment, I had fingers just resting on my trackpad. I think I'll never "get" drag&drop on MacBook touchpads. Ever…

Since you mention the touchpad being too small, are you trying to drag and drop with one finger or multiple? What I always just do is click with my thumb and move around with my other fingers. As long as my thumb stays down it stays selected. Then just a few quick swipes with my finger gets whatever it is I am selecting where I want to go. Same works for windows and anything you click and drag. Admittedly there is a…

Thanks for the hint, I will give that a try.

Re: Linux Touchpad Like MacBook Update: 2023 Progress on Smooth Scrolling

#115

Post by ralphist »

e12e wrote: post #67
seszett wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been reading this kind of opinion for years, but I have always found the touchpad to be annoyingly slow under macOS. On the other hand, MacBooks are basically the only laptops with a large enough touchpad to be comfortable, I don't know if there's some other secret sauce Apple algorithm in the firmware that contributes to the experience, but to me the perfect combination is with a MacBook running Linux, which is…

I think I'll have to watch one of these people who love the Mac touchpad work. We are clearly not working the same way. Even with max speed and acceleration my MacBook air m2 touchpad feel anemic, and cumbersome for selecting text. Fwiw I also have an apple mouse, and the touch based scroll feels unpredictable, and the mouse a bit slow too.

I think you're using it wrong. You can travel a whole screen with one trackpad move if you move the finger fast enough. Maybe you didn't hit a high enough acceleration?

Re: Linux Touchpad Like MacBook Update: 2023 Progress on Smooth Scrolling

#116

Post by mschuster91 »

rjh29 wrote: post #100
mschuster91 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trackpoints IMHO suck hard, simply because you need a lot of fine motor control to precisely operate them, the texture is bad, and a single "purring cat on closed lid" event can be enough to permanently stain the screen.

Skill issue.

There are people on this world who legitimately have physical/neurological issues with fine motor control. The latter one just happens to include myself.

Apple's touchpad is far superior - it allows for really precise gestures as well as high speed coarse gestures, just varied by the speed of moving.

Re: Linux Touchpad Like MacBook Update: 2023 Progress on Smooth Scrolling

#117

Post by ralphist »

sandreas wrote: post #37
al_borland wrote: post #6

Why does this seem like such a hard problem to solve for everyone that isn’t Apple, when Apple seemingly solved the Trackpad over a decade ago? Is this it? An unknown ROI? >the highly uncertain ROI for trying to align touchpad acceleration has prevented us from proposing a system change to the default Linux settings. I can only speak for myself, but I gave up using trackpads on anything that isn’t a MacBook many year…

It isn't... You can see this in an open source JavaScript implementation of kinetic scrolling by Apple called PastryKit[3] using a magic number momentum * 0.9. The problem is, that on modern Linux environments, there is no clear responsibility for where scroll handling code belongs. Especially Kinetic / Inertial scrolling is handled way different than in macOS. There is libinput (for handling and redirecting input ev…

> I filed an issue[1] on cosmic in hope they'll get it right, but I don't have too high hopes that this is of much interest.

That's insane but you're right. Firefox on Ubuntu had awful trackpad scrolling 10 years ago and it's still bad. How do you make an OS where the main pointing device on half of the market sucks and assign that low priority?

Re: Linux Touchpad Like MacBook Update: 2023 Progress on Smooth Scrolling

#118

Post by piva00 »

data-ottawa wrote: post #110
TonyTrapp wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even more interesting is when I see my partner try to do something on my Mac using a trackpad, he seems... apprehensive? Like he is so afraid of doing the wrong thing and for me this trackpad has never done something I didn't want it to do. Like without even thinking about it while I was re-reading this comment, I had fingers just resting on my trackpad. I think I'll never "get" drag&drop on MacBook touchpads. Ever…

I turn on the accessibility setting for drag lock as the first thing I do on any new macOS install, that helps a lot

I always turn on 3-finger drag in any Mac I use, not once someone complained I enabled that option for them. I don't understand why it isn't the default...

Re: Linux Touchpad Like MacBook Update: 2023 Progress on Smooth Scrolling

#119

Post by prewett »

nerdjon wrote: post #109
TonyTrapp wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even more interesting is when I see my partner try to do something on my Mac using a trackpad, he seems... apprehensive? Like he is so afraid of doing the wrong thing and for me this trackpad has never done something I didn't want it to do. Like without even thinking about it while I was re-reading this comment, I had fingers just resting on my trackpad. I think I'll never "get" drag&drop on MacBook touchpads. Ever…

Since you mention the touchpad being too small, are you trying to drag and drop with one finger or multiple? What I always just do is click with my thumb and move around with my other fingers. As long as my thumb stays down it stays selected. Then just a few quick swipes with my finger gets whatever it is I am selecting where I want to go. Same works for windows and anything you click and drag. Admittedly there is a…

I find it easier to rest my second finger and drag with the third finger as I don't have to twist my hand that way.

Re: Linux Touchpad Like MacBook Update: 2023 Progress on Smooth Scrolling

#120

Post by methyl »

jwells89 wrote: post #83
al_borland wrote: post #6

Why does this seem like such a hard problem to solve for everyone that isn’t Apple, when Apple seemingly solved the Trackpad over a decade ago? Is this it? An unknown ROI? >the highly uncertain ROI for trying to align touchpad acceleration has prevented us from proposing a system change to the default Linux settings. I can only speak for myself, but I gave up using trackpads on anything that isn’t a MacBook many year…

One thing that might make a difference is that for a long time now, Apple trackpads are actually touchscreens sans screen. They use the same multitouch hardware as iPhones and iPads, which of course are precise and responsive. I would guess that these are probably a bit more expensive than your run of the mill trackpad from e.g. Synaptics that ends up in the typical laptop.

I thought so, but then installing Asahi results in terrible trackpad experience even though the hardware is the same.
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