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The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

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Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#111

Post by jvmboi »

csa wrote: post #36
godzillabrennus wrote: post #2

Seems like a good time to start an appliance business.

Very good appliances that last a long time currently exist. They are just not at the price point that many/most folks prefer to pay.

I am erring on the side of durability because I'm not really into new gimmicks but it's a daunting proposition to buy the "good stuff". A low stakes example is my Miele dishwasher that I bought when I was outraged at my previous Siemens/Bosch one breaking due to a very simple part that just can't be replaced because of the way the machine is (deliberately?) constructed. Just getting to that place can slice your hand open if you are not careful. So this is all just to say: I get it and I am in. BUT. There no reliable way for me to know that that if I pay 4x as much as that I'll get 4x as much durability. For all I know, my Miele could also break in a year and then what?

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#112

Post by account42 »

larsrc wrote: post #77
quatrefoil wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you honestly tried? Product reviews were never the right place to look, because they don't get published after 10 years of use. But unlike in the 1970s, 1980s, or 1990s, you are one search away from appliance repairman forums that lay it bare. I confess to not having done this when I first bought my LG appliances, but that's on me. And then when they broke and I called a number of SF Bay Area appliance repair sh…

I always try to research my appliance purchases, but longevity info is decidedly not at my fingertips. Had not considered appliance repairman forums, that's a nice idea (until it gets commonly known and then abused).

I'm also not sure how much the repairment knowledge will help besides information about general brand quality. By the time some appliance makes the repair rounds it is probably no longer for sale because it has been replaced by a newer model that may be better or worse.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#113

Post by Tarsul »

larsrc wrote: post #78
fhe wrote: post #17

on the other hand, my 10 year old mac mini still runs fine, although it no longer supports the latest OSX and many of the more recent APP's. But as a media/entertainment device, light duty file server, and even coding the occasional throwaway program, it comfortably holds its ground.

We just got a new Mac as our fourteen year old iMac is not getting Chrome security updates any more. Otherwise runs fine. Kudos to Apple there.

yeah but on the other hand a perfectly fine ipad mini from 2012 is basically unusable since 2017 or so because you cannot use most apps anymore since you cannot update the OS anymore and old versions of apps are depreciated.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#114

Post by inejge »

stdbrouw wrote: post #100

> A spokeswoman for the Association for Home Appliance Manufacturers says [...] data last updated in 2019 shows that the average life of an appliance has “not substantially shifted over the past two decades.” So, unless she is lying, there is actually no story?

"Substantially" is doing a lot of work there, and "last updated in 2019" means half a decade out of date. It's a fun modeling exercise: how much do you need to reduce durability in order to make people spend 40%+ more on replacements (in constant dollars, I suppose)? I'm pretty sure that the members of the Association for Home Appliance Manufacturers have created that model, but they're not going to share it with the public. If the answer is a few percent, disregarding the last five years, they're not strictly lying. Just not telling you the whole truth.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#115

Post by denton-scratch »

jvmboi wrote: post #111
csa wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very good appliances that last a long time currently exist. They are just not at the price point that many/most folks prefer to pay.

I am erring on the side of durability because I'm not really into new gimmicks but it's a daunting proposition to buy the "good stuff". A low stakes example is my Miele dishwasher that I bought when I was outraged at my previous Siemens/Bosch one breaking due to a very simple part that just can't be replaced because of the way the machine is (deliberately?) constructed. Just getting to that place can slice your hand…

> There no reliable way for me to know that that if I pay 4x as much as that I'll get 4x as much durability.

That's the assymmetry of ignorance that underlies all lemon markets.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#116

Post by duckmysick »

perfunctory wrote: post #108

Always reminds me of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel

Interesting to note is that the rated life time (1,000 hours) stayed the same after the cartel dissolved. Even the ones available today have the rated life time in the same order of magnitude: https://www.mcmaster.com/products/light-bulbs/light-technolo...

Sure, the cartel existed. At the same time, the engineering trade-offs are still there.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#117

Post by fakedang »

b112 wrote: post #73
NackerHughes wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am very curious as to whether the money you save in energy bills from today’s more ‘energy-efficient’ appliances outdoes the money spent in replacing the things so much more frequently. Older appliances may cost more to run but it’s possible they pay themselves off by virtue of not having to re-buy them every few years. Speculation, of course. I wonder if anyone’s done the math on this.

I'm not sure if you meant this, but I wonder too.. from the perspective of: - energy loss in resource extraction and refinement (steel, aluminum, plastic, etc, etc) - manufacturing energy use - shipping energy use - disposal energy costs of old device (including recycling costs) - all the pollution in the above, versus pollution from local energy sources It's entirely possible that an energy efficient fridge that las…

But those energy costs are externalized from the manufacturer to other players, so no company cares.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#118

Post by ejb999 »

ptek wrote: post #37

The annoying thing is that you see arcticles in paper and clips on tv that you have to upgrade all your old equipment from the 60s so you can "save energy". Who wants some iFridge/iOven when the equipment made in the 60s was built to survive two zombies apocalypse and one nuclear war and won't connect to the internet for a firmware update. Also the CIA can't hack your fridge so you get salmonella from your chicken be…

We own a second fridge, a GE (family of 6 so we need the extra storage). It is now ~65 years old and has never needed service and has not failed to maintain the correct temperature.

Not sure you can buy one like anymore.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#119

Post by papa0101 »

johannes1234321 wrote: post #109
alkonaut wrote: post #94

This has a very simple reason: the cost of manufacturing has shrunk and the cost of repair has not. Because repairs require expensive people and manufacturing can take place with automation or cheap labor. The worst offenders aren't large appliances, it's the cheap crap. If a store sells me an electric toothbrush for $79 and it breaks after a month shouln't just be required to replace it, it has to be worse than that…

> When I browse appliances or electronics, I want to know the lifespan. An approach for this is to switch from owning to renting. Say you rent your washing machine for 1000 runs. Consequence then is that you have predictable cost per run and since the vendor is responsible for maintenance and deposition, thus they have an interest in making the machine repairable and recyclable.

'You'll own nothing and be happy' world then?

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#120

Post by johannes1234321 »

papa0101 wrote: post #119
johannes1234321 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When I browse appliances or electronics, I want to know the lifespan. An approach for this is to switch from owning to renting. Say you rent your washing machine for 1000 runs. Consequence then is that you have predictable cost per run and since the vendor is responsible for maintenance and deposition, thus they have an interest in making the machine repairable and recyclable.

'You'll own nothing and be happy' world then?

Household appliances aren't a thing many people are attached to, which simply should work. Giving up the worries there might make people happy.

If one doesn't get the feeling that one overpays. And that fear will likely win, before another model reaches scales where it is beneficial.

We can see that a bit with cars in cities, where car sharing tries to do that, while profits are hard to make (also die to hard competition between companies)

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