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ASML dethrones Applied Materials, becomes largest fab tool maker

tomshardware.com

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Re: ASML dethrones Applied Materials, becomes largest fab tool maker

#111
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have other insight? A counterpoint? Anecdote that supports a different narrative? Anything, at all, that would contribute to the conversation and support your "garbage" comment?

Hcfman works at ASML and I (who wrote the comment back in 2018) don’t. Fair chance he knows what he’s talking about.

[deleted]

Re: ASML dethrones Applied Materials, becomes largest fab tool maker

#112
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hcfman works at ASML and I (who wrote the comment back in 2018) don’t. Fair chance he knows what he’s talking about.

Okay I'll bite. Usually with large and important companies like ASML one has to be very careful with what you say. Usually it's better to say nothing at all. This time I felt I had to jump in and defend ASML as it was painting rather a misrepresentational picture. First, I'd like to say that skrebbel has reacted very gentlemanly to my comment considering how hard hitting it was, my complements to his balance in this.…

I totally get that you need to be careful about what you say, and I especially appreciate you taking some extra time to write this out. This comment is 1000x more interesting than "that story has a lot of garbage".

Re: ASML dethrones Applied Materials, becomes largest fab tool maker

#113
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay I'll bite. Usually with large and important companies like ASML one has to be very careful with what you say. Usually it's better to say nothing at all. This time I felt I had to jump in and defend ASML as it was painting rather a misrepresentational picture. First, I'd like to say that skrebbel has reacted very gentlemanly to my comment considering how hard hitting it was, my complements to his balance in this.…

I totally get that you need to be careful about what you say, and I especially appreciate you taking some extra time to write this out. This comment is 1000x more interesting than "that story has a lot of garbage".

Thank you kindly!

AND... now that have your attention. Perhaps I can implore upon the readers here to help me get my new project into the main discussion page of hacker news? Cheeky bastard that I am :)

It's really interesting. It's a sound localization project that combines microsecond Raspberry Pi system clock with sound recording to do really accurate Raspberry Pi based sound localization. I've been trying to get it to the main discussion on hacker news for ages with no success.

Links here:

https://hackaday.com/2023/12/30/localizing-fireworks-launche...

https://medium.com/@kim_94237/tdoa-sound-localization-with-t...

https://github.com/hcfman/sbts-aru

Re: ASML dethrones Applied Materials, becomes largest fab tool maker

#114
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure? Every ASML person I know loves sharing these stories at parties. It’s not a secret or anything. Stock wont go down if people find out that the code is a mess, everybody who cares about this already knows it. ASML is impressive because they managed to ship despite the code having been a mess. It’s a mad accomplishment of both engineering and organization (they solve the messy code problem by simply emplo…

No I'm not sure and maybe it's just me. Also but of a difference between a party and posts on the internet imo.

Fair

Re: ASML dethrones Applied Materials, becomes largest fab tool maker

#115
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hcfman works at ASML and I (who wrote the comment back in 2018) don’t. Fair chance he knows what he’s talking about.

Okay I'll bite. Usually with large and important companies like ASML one has to be very careful with what you say. Usually it's better to say nothing at all. This time I felt I had to jump in and defend ASML as it was painting rather a misrepresentational picture. First, I'd like to say that skrebbel has reacted very gentlemanly to my comment considering how hard hitting it was, my complements to his balance in this.…

> my complements to his balance in this

Appreciate it :) I don't take a lot of pride in HN comments and definitely not in ones that I wrote 6 years ago :-)

Appreciate the insights, very cool to see how good it's all getting.

Re: ASML dethrones Applied Materials, becomes largest fab tool maker

#116
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lived in NL for a while, few years, changed few companies, it's a place where processes are more important than actual code quality, where people stay in the same job for 10-15 years and everything below that is seen as a bad thing, people is hired for the culture primarily, having awareness of software principles is really worthless. I ran away as the last company I interviewed with, after solving a coding puzz…

I'm a hiring manager in the Netherlands. I would be happy that you ran away, because you would not have passed the bar. The hiring process I like to have in place is: 1. HR Interview: see if there is a fit with the company 2. Skill check. Do you have the problem solving, hard skills and communication skills needed for the job. 3. Team fit. Do you like to drink a beer (or non alcoholic) with us and we with you. Can yo…

I have been my whole career a great team fit, I’ve had bosses inviting me for Christmas at their home when I couldn’t travel to my home town, I’ve had coworkers inviting me to their child baptism and their wedding, I only don’t pass the bar for social interaction when its enforced by clowns out of context

Ah I had party at my place, and friends of coworkers invited wanted to have me at their home for weeks before I left the country because thanks to me improved the amount of friends they had despite being born there

I can't tell you all the things where I have had a confirmation that I am great with almost all kind of people.

Except landlords and hiring managers.

Why are you even in a technical interview process?

Even if someone is not capable of having a beer or social interaction, what's the issue?

You're there to punish people who have different personalities, have a different background? Your company is so shallow that it can't digest dealing with someone different? Are you so soft skinned? Is the system now punishing introverts?

Ah as working part of a team, my last manager in NL said they were glad to have me because I was the only one non introvert that would ask questions during meetings. They let me go because I wouldn't go to social events anymore. You know what were the social events? People mimicking italian gestures, talking about cappuccino and pizza with pineapples (I am italian).

Re: ASML dethrones Applied Materials, becomes largest fab tool maker

#117
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a hiring manager in the Netherlands. I would be happy that you ran away, because you would not have passed the bar. The hiring process I like to have in place is: 1. HR Interview: see if there is a fit with the company 2. Skill check. Do you have the problem solving, hard skills and communication skills needed for the job. 3. Team fit. Do you like to drink a beer (or non alcoholic) with us and we with you. Can yo…

> Do you like to drink a beer (or non alcoholic) with us and we with you. Why is that relevant for work? Are you looking for labor, or for a date/drinking buddy? Social and communication skills are important but I can be professionally communicative for work ralted topics, and still not want to have a beer with you after work, because it's my free time and I have other interests than you and other things to do. Unles…

> because it's my free time

This is exactly my frustration

Re: ASML dethrones Applied Materials, becomes largest fab tool maker

#118
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lived in NL for a while, few years, changed few companies, it's a place where processes are more important than actual code quality, where people stay in the same job for 10-15 years and everything below that is seen as a bad thing, people is hired for the culture primarily, having awareness of software principles is really worthless. I ran away as the last company I interviewed with, after solving a coding puzz…

I'm a hiring manager in the Netherlands. I would be happy that you ran away, because you would not have passed the bar. The hiring process I like to have in place is: 1. HR Interview: see if there is a fit with the company 2. Skill check. Do you have the problem solving, hard skills and communication skills needed for the job. 3. Team fit. Do you like to drink a beer (or non alcoholic) with us and we with you. Can yo…

And this kind of nonsense is basically why EU tech scene will forever stay uncompetitive. I find it interesting that ASML got to where it is from the remnant of some Philips labs but I’m not sure they will manage to stay in top for long if some other tech center decide to go and build something competitive.

Overall the NL/BE work culture is not desirable from experience.

Re: ASML dethrones Applied Materials, becomes largest fab tool maker

#119
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lived in NL for a while, few years, changed few companies, it's a place where processes are more important than actual code quality, where people stay in the same job for 10-15 years and everything below that is seen as a bad thing, people is hired for the culture primarily, having awareness of software principles is really worthless. I ran away as the last company I interviewed with, after solving a coding puzz…

I'm going to defend this method of hiring a little bit. To me, having at least a bachelor of IT already proves you have software engineering skills. The coding tests are just a quick check if you haven't lied or anything. The first month is trial basis anyway (both ways) so if the candidate is not on-par technically it's a quick goodbye. I don't care about parties either but if I'm going to have to work with you I ne…

You chose social convenience and niceties over quality work. That’s fine for an established company with secure revenue but in the long run it’s not going anywhere. If the less nice but more competent people gets hired by one of your competitors you basically provided the ammo to kill your business. But I guess whatever, most of the timer hiring managers are found in companies who stopped evolving.

Re: ASML dethrones Applied Materials, becomes largest fab tool maker

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From that comment I concluded that software patching speed isn’t a bottleneck there. It sounds frustrating but to be terrible it needs to significantly impede the product or business relationships, which isn’t at all happening.

I find it strange that they are making so few machines. The price would probably drop slightly if they made 10x more machines, but they would still end up earning more. And the world would be a better place, too. So I am left wondering ... what is capping their output? What is the bottleneck?

Part of the answer was in previous comments: they are relying too much on “nice” humans instead of rationalizing processes. This is very common in the EU and in fact trying to do stuff that will lead to less people needed for a given output will quickly get you in trouble. The other day there was someone calling EU communist and on a “culture” point of view this is pretty close. We seem stuck on old paradigm of everyone has to do something even if it cause more problems in the long run. I believe they could absolutely produce more machine if they had too but they don’t have to care since they have no real competitors on the high end stuff so this is what we get…
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