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Exodus Bitcoin Wallet: $490k swindle

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Re: Exodus Bitcoin Wallet: $490k swindle

#111

Post by LASR »

ravenstine wrote: post #50
reisse wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin "wallet" is just a pair of public and private keys. Honest question - what is the difference between a "hardware wallet" and a thumbdrive with the keys on it, except for the price tag?

If it's being used as a "savings account", there really isn't a meaningful difference, although it can be superior because a hardware wallet is more likely to be targeted for an exploit than some rando thumb drive that no one knows the location of or knows exists. This goes against everything that r/bitcoin would say, but lots of those users are similar to those infosec guys who consider all electronics "unacceptably…

Well the big difference is that keys can't be accessed in a hardware wallet. If you accidentally plug in the USB drive into some untrusted box, you could potentially have everything stolen.

> some rando thumb drive that no one knows the location of or knows exists

You still have this option with a hardware wallet. eg:

> some rando hardware wallet that no one knows the location of or knows exists

Re: Exodus Bitcoin Wallet: $490k swindle

#112

Post by csomar »

codetrotter wrote: post #9

This is scary and even a hardware wallet might not help. When I create a transaction with Electrum on my computer, I use a hardware wallet to sign the transaction. When I sign the transaction, the hardware wallet shows the amounts, and the output addresses. But if my copy of Electrum was backdoored and smart about what it did, it could use an output address for the remaining amount that went to another wallet. And si…

> But if my copy of Electrum was backdoored and smart about what it did, it could use an output address for the remaining amount that went to another wallet.

Pretty sure this is not the case for Trezor (This was an angle that got addressed a long time ago). Also, Ethereum doesn't have a change address.

> So far I’ve been putting it off because a single wallet and being diligent about checking the output address that you send to seemed sufficient.

If you are too concerned and use Bitcoin, there is an easier/simpler way. Sign the transaction offline and don't broadcast it. Copy the transaction Hex and decode it. You can there read the details of the output addresses, fees, etc.. When you are sure, then you can broadcast the transaction.

Re: Exodus Bitcoin Wallet: $490k swindle

#113

Post by yieldcrv »

redder23 wrote: post #3

Even the real version is the app is a software wallet right? If you have almost 500k in BTC and do not have it on a hardware wallet and use their official software for it, I have to say it's at least partially on you if you lose it.

amusingly, adhering to that victim blaming advice wouldn’t have avoided being a victim here

Re: Exodus Bitcoin Wallet: $490k swindle

#114

Post by csomar »

stouset wrote: post #34
codetrotter wrote: post #9

This is scary and even a hardware wallet might not help. When I create a transaction with Electrum on my computer, I use a hardware wallet to sign the transaction. When I sign the transaction, the hardware wallet shows the amounts, and the output addresses. But if my copy of Electrum was backdoored and smart about what it did, it could use an output address for the remaining amount that went to another wallet. And si…

Reading this, it is bonkers to me that people think cryptocurrencies are ready or appropriate for mainstream use, either as a currency or as an investment. Line could go up, but if you aren’t extremely careful with processes that most people don’t and won’t comprehend—and don’t even realize are something you need to do—you can just straight up lose everything.

> you can just straight up lose everything.

The story is not much different in Traditional Finance; though in some cases you can recover your money. The US (and to some extent EU) have some protection, but for the rest of the world it's not much different than crypto.

Re: Exodus Bitcoin Wallet: $490k swindle

#115

Post by acdha »

csomar wrote: post #114
stouset wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading this, it is bonkers to me that people think cryptocurrencies are ready or appropriate for mainstream use, either as a currency or as an investment. Line could go up, but if you aren’t extremely careful with processes that most people don’t and won’t comprehend—and don’t even realize are something you need to do—you can just straight up lose everything.

> you can just straight up lose everything. The story is not much different in Traditional Finance; though in some cases you can recover your money. The US (and to some extent EU) have some protection, but for the rest of the world it's not much different than crypto.

> The US (and to some extent EU) have some protection, but for the rest of the world it's not much different than crypto.

Do you have any citations to your survey of global consumer protection laws? Examples would be especially relevant if you know of cases where a bank granting access to a scammer left the victim with no recourse.

Re: Exodus Bitcoin Wallet: $490k swindle

#116

Post by reidjs »

threeseed wrote: post #72
legutierr wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 1980 packet switching had existed for 20 years already. The public Internet wouldn’t emerge for more than a decade after that—and it would take yet another 20 years for the true power of packet-switched networks to be realized, in the form of mobile Internet. In 2000 neural networks had existed for more than 50 years. More than 20 years later their full potential is finally being realized, and many would say it is…

Crypto-currency isn't about the technology. It's a political experiment centred around replacing the existing financial system. And the mistake there is that people in the crypto space are ignorant about how that world works. Namely that there is such a large overlap with the government that you're in essence trying to disrupt governments. Which is a losing battle.

I don’t think it’s a battle. At least one government has adopted cryptocurrency to a small extent. No technology is “about” the technology, the other poster mentioned the Internet, very few care about how it works, they care about what they can with it.

Re: Exodus Bitcoin Wallet: $490k swindle

#117

Post by csomar »

reisse wrote: post #11
redder23 wrote: post #3

Even the real version is the app is a software wallet right? If you have almost 500k in BTC and do not have it on a hardware wallet and use their official software for it, I have to say it's at least partially on you if you lose it.

Bitcoin "wallet" is just a pair of public and private keys. Honest question - what is the difference between a "hardware wallet" and a thumbdrive with the keys on it, except for the price tag?

The hardware wallet is a bit more than a thumbdrive. It's a signing device.

Re: Exodus Bitcoin Wallet: $490k swindle

#118

Post by Saris »

jis wrote: post #97
Saris wrote: post #94

The strangest part to me is that it shows it as "Safe", based on what? It doesn't seem like any checks were done at all to make sure this was a real app from Exodus.

I suspect that the definition of "Safe" in this context is that it has limited ability to mess with your computer. From what I have read, the application didn't violate the security of anyone's computer, it didn't need to! So we need to be careful with how we interpret "Safe!"

Yeah it's quite confusing for the less technical user. Hopefully they change that so it doesn't just say "safe" in such a generic way.

Re: Exodus Bitcoin Wallet: $490k swindle

#119

Post by csomar »

acdha wrote: post #115
csomar wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can just straight up lose everything. The story is not much different in Traditional Finance; though in some cases you can recover your money. The US (and to some extent EU) have some protection, but for the rest of the world it's not much different than crypto.

> The US (and to some extent EU) have some protection, but for the rest of the world it's not much different than crypto. Do you have any citations to your survey of global consumer protection laws? Examples would be especially relevant if you know of cases where a bank granting access to a scammer left the victim with no recourse.

Beyond being an anecdotal point myself, you do read other people's experience online. I don't have concrete statistics; however, I do know that even big institutions get scammed with no recovery (ie: I recall the Bangladeshi central bank being swindled for tens of millions of dollars because of SWIFT and not being able to recover that money. If the Central Bank of a nation doesn't have a recourse for such an amount, I don't think the average person have that much protection either).

Re: Exodus Bitcoin Wallet: $490k swindle

#120

Post by jakupovic »

cypherpunks01 wrote: post #88
GauntletWizard wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The history of finance is as long as recorded history, perhaps the reason for it[1]. That said, these kinds of crazes[2] are almost as old. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complaint_tablet_to_Ea-n%C4%81... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania

I don't recall ever reading about a tulip ETF, though, that could be kind of interesting

Lol. HN is stuck in "CRYPTO BAD BOOO, We don't need no reason. We know", in the voice of HN group think.
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