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German credit agency earns millions through unlawful customer manipulation

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Re: German credit agency earns millions through unlawful customer manipulation

#111
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> public healthcare inaccessible despite paying more than 400€/month for it as a single individual. That's a pretty new thing though (been getting worse for the last 10 yrs). And the person responsible for the legislature that caused this change is the current health minister. Also... 400€? It's a percentage of your salary. And you're omitting that the employer pays the same amount, so you're effectively paying 800€…

> Also... 400€? It's a percentage of your salary. And you're omitting that the employer pays the same amount, so you're effectively paying 800€ at the very least. Not everybody is employed.

If you're not employed then aren't you expected to pay both halves yourself?

Re: German credit agency earns millions through unlawful customer manipulation

#112
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is Netherlands healthcare better? From what I've heard from people having lived in both countries, German healthcare is more accessible. E.g. in Netherlands you can't see a specialist doctor unless you convinced your GP you absolutely have to - which can be hard at times.

I'm 58 and not exactly in the best of health. I've had to rely on healthcare in NL quite a few times over the last 20 years or so and all of those were serious cases. I have nothing to complain about, but that's n=1. To increment that n a bit: I know lots of people here and almost all of them have had some health issues over the years and the vast majority of those have been dealt with in a serious and reasonably eff…

> the diagnostic machinery isn't really all that effective, when in other countries they'd spend a fortune to find out what's wrong with you in NL unless it's 100% clear you're going to have a hard time getting the care that you need.

What other countries are those?

Re: German credit agency earns millions through unlawful customer manipulation

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it quite disturbing that high taxation is seen as a negative aspect of Europe. I lived in Italy, France and Germany, and I enjoyed public healthcare and education of very high standard at very affordable prices, and free in the limit that one cannot afford to pay for them. As a relative of a person with a chronic disease I can tell you that on the one hand if we are not bankrupt it is because of public healthc…

High taxes with no matching value behind them is undeniably a negative.

Yes, that's my problem with high taxation, as someone who got burnt by it by virtue of living and paying taxes in the UK.

I don't mind paying my fair share of tax if it means I get good value out of it, but the state of our healthcare here means that in practice the public healthcare system is no longer fit for purpose, so we are being forced to pay for a system that doesn't work and end up having to go private (and thus pay again) when we do need timely healthcare.

I am generally in favor of fair, progressive taxation to ensure everyone has a good social safety net, but the taxation should be fair (it's no longer the case in the UK, since tax brackets haven't been adjusted for inflation) and the services paid for by those taxes should provide good value.

The danger with services funded by taxes as opposed to a private enterprise operating in a free market is that private enterprises are bound by competitive pressure - if they are delivering terrible service and stuffing their pockets with the money, you are free not to do business with them and a potential competitor (that stuffs their pockets a little less) can come along and get your business instead.

With tax-funded services, this pressure doesn't exist, so there's no incentive for politicians (and everyone else in the value chain) to deliver good service, since people generally can't opt out of taxes. This means that even if a service is currently good, there's no guarantee it will remain so since the pressure for it to remain isn't there. Thus, when you see high taxation, it's reasonable to be worried whether the service provided by those taxes is any good and whether it will remain so in the future.

Re: German credit agency earns millions through unlawful customer manipulation

#114
post #10
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a distinction without a difference. Whether the renter or the landlord buy the credit report, the renter will pay for it anyway.

Well, no. If the applicant is denied they pay nothing.

The applicant keeps applying until they are approved, so everyone ends up paying. Being perpetually denied would mean being homeless. Not much of a silver lining.

Re: German credit agency earns millions through unlawful customer manipulation

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also... 400€? It's a percentage of your salary. And you're omitting that the employer pays the same amount, so you're effectively paying 800€ at the very least. Not everybody is employed.

If you're not employed then aren't you expected to pay both halves yourself?

It is paid by the social security system in that case. If you're self-employed then you will have to pay both parts yourself.

Re: German credit agency earns millions through unlawful customer manipulation

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also... 400€? It's a percentage of your salary. And you're omitting that the employer pays the same amount, so you're effectively paying 800€ at the very least. Not everybody is employed.

If you're not employed then aren't you expected to pay both halves yourself?

[deleted]

Re: German credit agency earns millions through unlawful customer manipulation

#117

Finally. Germany combines some of the worst aspects of the US (credit ranking, complicated abortion process, private healthcare if you want decent treatments) with the worst aspects of Europe (low digitalization, high taxation, recursive federalism: within the country and within the EU). A country like the Netherlands has its own issues (mainly housing) but doesn't have the myriad of pain points you can find in Germa…

>low digitalization

Given that everyone uses IBAN, and it works great, I strongly disagree.

>private healthcare if you want decent treatments

Your mileage may vary, but I was very impressed with the speed and ease of acquiring healthcare under a public plan. The lack of paperwork for seeing a new doctor is astonishing. The lack of copays, SOBs, and all that is like a breath of fresh air, and is worth copying in the US. Heck I once saw a doctor for something and simply gave my card, and saw the doctor in the next hour, and she decided I needed an ultrasound...and did the ultrasound in 5 minutes herself. In the US, this would have been a multi-week ordeal with multiple rounds of paperwork and visits to different offices.

My wife also had a C-section at a Berlin hospital and the care was competent and 100% covered by our public insurance. In the US couples requiring a C-section can expect $20k+ of debt.

Re: German credit agency earns millions through unlawful customer manipulation

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it quite disturbing that high taxation is seen as a negative aspect of Europe. I lived in Italy, France and Germany, and I enjoyed public healthcare and education of very high standard at very affordable prices, and free in the limit that one cannot afford to pay for them. As a relative of a person with a chronic disease I can tell you that on the one hand if we are not bankrupt it is because of public healthc…

High taxes with no matching value behind them is undeniably a negative.

Unless you want to get into the nitty gritty of economic policy analysis and measuring market externalities, value of public goods is pretty subjective. A healthy person might not see much value in public healthcare and a single adult with no kids might not care about education. Just because you don’t value something in the same way doesn’t mean it’s not highly valued by the people who voted on and implemented the policies.

Re: German credit agency earns millions through unlawful customer manipulation

#119
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a bit surprised you would consider the credit system the same as the US. It doesn't have the bonkers bit of the US system where you have to take great care to be in a small amount of debt even if you don't need to be, in order to "prove" your creditworthiness so that you can be in a lot of debt later.

It's starting to creep into public services. You couldn't even get easy access to Covid stimulus funds without a credit card. Debit cards were rejected despite providing the same level of ID verification.

At what point did you need to use a credit card to receive your economic stimulus payment? I simply confirmed my most recent tax year information when I claimed mine.

Re: German credit agency earns millions through unlawful customer manipulation

#120

Finally. Germany combines some of the worst aspects of the US (credit ranking, complicated abortion process, private healthcare if you want decent treatments) with the worst aspects of Europe (low digitalization, high taxation, recursive federalism: within the country and within the EU). A country like the Netherlands has its own issues (mainly housing) but doesn't have the myriad of pain points you can find in Germa…

>low digitalization Given that everyone uses IBAN, and it works great, I strongly disagree. >private healthcare if you want decent treatments Your mileage may vary, but I was very impressed with the speed and ease of acquiring healthcare under a public plan. The lack of paperwork for seeing a new doctor is astonishing. The lack of copays, SOBs, and all that is like a breath of fresh air, and is worth copying in the U…

Low digitalization isn't just payment - it's also needing to fill in paper forms, or making in-person visits to government and business offices.

I've been living in Germany for about a decade, and it is still behind in many of these items from when I left the US, and having a friend that recently moved from Germany to NL, he was blown away at how convenient and just not-hostile so many day to day interactions with governments and businesses were.

Like - big picture, I'm very happy in Germany, but certain things are still very archaic and sometimes needlessly so.

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