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Europe's deepest mine to become giant gravity battery

independent.co.uk

111–118 of 118 posts

Re: Europe's deepest mine to become giant gravity battery

#111
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I took those things m, and I’m a successful software engineer and founder with an exit. I can never remember anything but joules for energy. Which I think doesn’t matter? And my RV has amp-hours? No fucking idea.

But are you writing articles about the topic?

Journalists are just failed CEOs.

Re: Europe's deepest mine to become giant gravity battery

#112
post #73
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Potential energy, U = mgh. So the energy required to raise 1m^3 of sand 1400m is 1600 x 1400 x 9.8 = 22MJ = 6.1kWh If you lowered 10 m^3 of sand (61kWh of potential energy), to generate the minimum 100kW power to participate in grid stabilization markets, you'd have to drop that 16000kg of sand for 61kWh/100kW = 0.61hr = 2196 sec. 1400 meters in 2196 seconds is 0.64 m/sec. That seems reasonable, but you'd need a lo…

I've participated in grid stabilization in Switzerland (ancillary services), and 100kW is absolutely nothing. As far as I recall, 10 years ago, the minimum needed to become a participant was 10MW

Even in the US, I'd bet that few entities bid into the ancillary services markets at only 100kW because the economics don't add up when you are using batteries (due to high fixed costs).

However, having the lower minimum has the advantage of allowing smaller firms to participate (i.e. companies controlling 100s of electric water heaters), instead of just massive utilities.

Re: Europe's deepest mine to become giant gravity battery

#113
post #110
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly one reservoir (or a number of tiny ones not worth mentioning), because even all the way from Richland to Portland there is hardly any elevation drop.

PS: oh, you meant reservoirs in contributory valleys left and right of the main river. Sorry about the misread, "above and along" should have been clear enough.

this works for water storage, and some for hydro generation, but for hydro stroage, you really want two large basins with as big of a elevation change as possible.

This is because dams are very expensive, have height limitations, and some inherent risk. Hover dam is only ~200 meters high. The big hydro storage projects have height changes ~400 meters.

Re: Europe's deepest mine to become giant gravity battery

#114
post #25

Isn't there a better article? - 2 MW of energy MW is a unit of power not energy, maybe they mean 2 MWh, but if that's the case, it is a joke. That's like 30 Teslas cars, or half of a Tesla Megapack, which is a shipping container sized battery. 2 MW of power is not that big either, that's about what you get from a typical wind turbine. - 70TWh of energy At least, we have a proper unit, but I wish they tell us a bit mo…

>Future GraviStores will store more than 20MWh https://www.marketscreener.com/quote/stock/ABB-LTD-9365000/n...

In which case, this one is a joke. It stores less than $3,000 worth of electricity (15¢ per kWh).

Re: Europe's deepest mine to become giant gravity battery

#115
post #80

Another completely misleading article on gravity batteries. All the solid weight stuff is bunk, probably designed to suck out money from naive investors / corrupt state officials. Moving solid weights gives only a very small electric power, so building the proposed solid weight batteries gives units of MW at most, which is uneconomical. Unless it transports a large lake of water up and down a hill like in pumped-stor…

The best option i know of for a mine is compressed air, and there some storages like this already built and operational. Just seal mine/cavity/empty oil well/etc and pump air in. There are some loses on friction, heating-from-compression but overall good economically speaking

Re: Europe's deepest mine to become giant gravity battery

#116
post #81
post #25

Isn't there a better article? - 2 MW of energy MW is a unit of power not energy, maybe they mean 2 MWh, but if that's the case, it is a joke. That's like 30 Teslas cars, or half of a Tesla Megapack, which is a shipping container sized battery. 2 MW of power is not that big either, that's about what you get from a typical wind turbine. - 70TWh of energy At least, we have a proper unit, but I wish they tell us a bit mo…

>Isn't there a better article? >maybe they mean 2 MWh, but if that's the case, it is a joke. There are tons of equally bad articles about this story, which is sad to see. Quality journalism might not be dead but it sure is outnumbered! However, reading about the proposed mechanism I might charitably interpret it as being able to deliver 2MW peak power, for however long it has available sand. So an interesting aspect…

It's not just that the journalists are technically illiterate. It's also that the people making these claims are trying to deceive. You needs lakes of water to have enough mass to make gravity batteries practical. Those are called pumped-hydro. Anything talking about dropping heavy things is probably about 6 orders or magnitude too small and a scam to get government funding.

Re: Europe's deepest mine to become giant gravity battery

#117
post #37

Were going to read how this is an unsuccessful endeavor in about 5 years. I haven't seen a lot of great reports on gravity batteries. I wish something like this was highly viable and succesful. Seems like a great simple solution.

I got a tidbit of amusing that a person named "boring" commented on a gravity mine article.

Re: Europe's deepest mine to become giant gravity battery

#118
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was recently an article here about an electric truck that never needs charging. It drives up a hill, collects a load of rock from the mine there, and by the time it has driven back down with the heavy load, regenerative breaking has recharged the battery.

While that makes perfect sense, I have read journalists claiming that Teslas were 110% efficient because of regenerative braking.

A pile of rocks on a hill is a renewable energy source if you are prepared to wait a few billion years for plate tectonics to recharge it.
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