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Dart/Flutter now has macros/metaprogramming

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Re: Dart/Flutter now has macros/metaprogramming

#111

Post by mdhb »

mardifoufs wrote: post #69
themerone wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can use dart without flutter.

Absolutely, but for webapps, is there any other options using dart? For the record, dart is one of my favorite languages. I'm just a bit sad that it is more or less tied to flutter (not by design, just because it's the main usage it gets)

They are a couple of weeks away from launching a major rewrite of Web support.

Historically it was clunky and weird.

Now it’s able to use the exact same Web APIs that you’re already used to but now in a type safe way and much much better type safety guarantees that Typescript provides.

Example code here: https://github.com/dart-lang/web/blob/main/example/example.d...

Re: Dart/Flutter now has macros/metaprogramming

#112

Post by mardifoufs »

freedomben wrote: post #84
mardifoufs wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely, but for webapps, is there any other options using dart? For the record, dart is one of my favorite languages. I'm just a bit sad that it is more or less tied to flutter (not by design, just because it's the main usage it gets)

How do you feel about Java? How about Ruby? (If you have worked with those). I'm mainly asking so I have a baseline for what your preferences are. Considered Dart in the past but haven't tried yet

I dislike ruby, purely as a matter of personal preference. As a baseline, python is probably as "dynamic" as I can tolerate, and java I just don't have enough experience with sadly enough. I use mostly c++/go/python with some julia and rust (not enough to have tons of experience with it though!). I'd day try dart, it's very easy to pick up. In some odd ways it reminds me of swift!

Re: Dart/Flutter now has macros/metaprogramming

#113

Post by mdhb »

pjmlp wrote: post #108
Alifatisk wrote: post #106

Would it be wiser if the Dart team and the Flutter team split up and let the Dart language grow outside the Flutter ecosystem? Because the only use case I see with Dart is UI development, nothing else.

Flutter is what rescued Dart from certain death, after Chrome stop caring and AdWords took over from what was left in Dart 1.0, as most well know language designers on the team like Gilad Bracha and Kasper Lund left Google.

That information is about a decade out of date. In practice a bunch of new stuff is using it from the as yet unreleased Fuchsia OS and major products are being rewritten to take advantage of it (Google Earth comes to mind).

Re: Dart/Flutter now has macros/metaprogramming

#114

Post by _the_inflator »

satvikpendem wrote: post #101
_the_inflator wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the good reads and your TLDR. I believe there are very good reasons to design Flutter as it is and I don’t want to denigrate it. I think it is awesome work. It is just that Swift feels extremely elegant and well-shaped, like a Domain Specific Language, and it didn’t feel this in the beginning. It evolved and did a great job. Maybe like Java and Kotlin. I like Java after all, however I enjoy Kotlin the way…

Actually, check out this comment [0] I made in another thread that was recently posted (copy pasted below), it's about Compose Multiplatform in Kotlin, it seems to be an upcoming Flutter competitor. It's pretty intriuging as I was initially using Flutter because I didn't want to have different apps for each platform, but it seems like with CM, it can do the same thing as Flutter but with more advantages, as I wrote o…

Compose Multiplatform - I already starred it on Github but forgot about it.

Nice recommendation. Only by looking at the video do I feel that it appeals more to me and my needs than Flutter.

CM for iOS is still in Alpha.

Re: Dart/Flutter now has macros/metaprogramming

#115

Post by pjmlp »

mdhb wrote: post #113
pjmlp wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flutter is what rescued Dart from certain death, after Chrome stop caring and AdWords took over from what was left in Dart 1.0, as most well know language designers on the team like Gilad Bracha and Kasper Lund left Google.

That information is about a decade out of date. In practice a bunch of new stuff is using it from the as yet unreleased Fuchsia OS and major products are being rewritten to take advantage of it (Google Earth comes to mind).

Fuchsia OS is going the way of the dodo, unfortunately.

Which has been released onto smart displays, which you apparently missed.

Since when has Google Earth lost its C++/WebAssembly/WebGL roots?

Re: Dart/Flutter now has macros/metaprogramming

#116

Post by ken47 »

teho wrote: post #85
ken47 wrote: post #65

I see a couple of comments regarding frame rates on load. The Flutter team claims they addressed that with their new rendering engine. Has anyone found this not to be the case?

I'm working on an app that is running on the latest version of Flutter with Impeller enabled. The performance seems good as long as you do not embed platform views inside a list. However, when you drop even a single platform view (web view, video player, google ads...), the performance drops to unacceptable levels even on the latest iOS devices. This is related to another issue with the Flutter ecosystem, it has clos…

What kind of performance drop are you seeing?

Re: Dart/Flutter now has macros/metaprogramming

#117

Post by satvikpendem »

_the_inflator wrote: post #114
satvikpendem wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, check out this comment [0] I made in another thread that was recently posted (copy pasted below), it's about Compose Multiplatform in Kotlin, it seems to be an upcoming Flutter competitor. It's pretty intriuging as I was initially using Flutter because I didn't want to have different apps for each platform, but it seems like with CM, it can do the same thing as Flutter but with more advantages, as I wrote o…

Compose Multiplatform - I already starred it on Github but forgot about it. Nice recommendation. Only by looking at the video do I feel that it appeals more to me and my needs than Flutter. CM for iOS is still in Alpha.

It's nice but looking into it more, seems like lots of people are having issues getting it working [0]. It's definitely not as smooth as Flutter but that's how alpha software is, I suppose.

[0] https://reddit.com/r/androiddev/comments/19em0d3/multiplatfo...

Re: Dart/Flutter now has macros/metaprogramming

#118

Post by teho »

mdhb wrote: post #110
teho wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flutter apps have god awful performance when there is even a single platform view on the screen. In effect this means that if the app is monetized by ads, have any video, map embed or anything of the sort, it will have sub-30fps and very janky scroll even on iPhone 15 Pro and it really seems that there is no hacks to save you.

That hasn’t been true for over a year maybe two at this point.

It is absolutely true still, it is especially bad on iOS and the worst when you have a ProMotion device. They did hard lock the max fps to 80fps on scrollable elements on ProMotion devices, which really is telling enough but it doesn't solve the very noticeable jitter either.

Re: Dart/Flutter now has macros/metaprogramming

#119

Post by mdhb »

pjmlp wrote: post #115
mdhb wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That information is about a decade out of date. In practice a bunch of new stuff is using it from the as yet unreleased Fuchsia OS and major products are being rewritten to take advantage of it (Google Earth comes to mind).

Fuchsia OS is going the way of the dodo, unfortunately. Which has been released onto smart displays, which you apparently missed. Since when has Google Earth lost its C++/WebAssembly/WebGL roots?

I’m not sure why you’re pretending to have some kind of secret insight on Fuchsia but you’re talking out of your ass here.

And I don’t know what you think Flutter is built with but it’s C++ / WebAssembly and WebGL.

https://x.com/FlutterDev/status/1708908434068779376

Re: Dart/Flutter now has macros/metaprogramming

#120

Post by pjmlp »

mdhb wrote: post #119
pjmlp wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fuchsia OS is going the way of the dodo, unfortunately. Which has been released onto smart displays, which you apparently missed. Since when has Google Earth lost its C++/WebAssembly/WebGL roots?

I’m not sure why you’re pretending to have some kind of secret insight on Fuchsia but you’re talking out of your ass here. And I don’t know what you think Flutter is built with but it’s C++ / WebAssembly and WebGL. https://x.com/FlutterDev/status/1708908434068779376

It's public knowledge,

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39005470

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36871673

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34515277

You didn't even knew about its use in Nest Hub Smart Displays.

I know how Flutter is implemented, thank you very much.

Most likely is a very thin layer over existing Google Earth C++, unless you have some proof the C++ code was fully rewritten into Dart, beyond a simple tweet.

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