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Is it insider trading if I bought Boeing puts while inside the wrecked airplane?

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111–120 of 227 posts

Re: Is it insider trading if I bought Boeing puts while inside the wrecked airplane?

#111
post #79
post #67

Hmm. So a rouge Meta employee could put a barometric pressure monitor in Messenger or WhatsApp (that people use even without paid in-flight wifi) to detect depressurization and automatically short the airline and aircraft manufacturer.

This would probably be violating the employee’s fiduciary duty to Meta.

But Meta the company could short the stock, and run a trading team using the information. It might be unwise because of bad PR, though.

Re: Is it insider trading if I bought Boeing puts while inside the wrecked airplane?

#112
post #45

Matt Levine covered this well too: https://archive.is/Kd6Os The answer being no, because as a consumer you have no duty of confidentiality.

"if you are just a regular person and you go to McDonald’s and buy a burger and say “this burger tastes bad, I’m gonna short the stock,” that’s fine, that’s legitimate research. ... People are supposed to go around observing companies’ products and services, evaluating them, and incorporating those evaluations into their investment decisions. That’s how stock prices become efficient and how capital gets allocated to good uses rather than bad ones."

Re: Is it insider trading if I bought Boeing puts while inside the wrecked airplane?

#113

No, it is not. If you do not have a fiduciary relationship with Boeing and you have no confidentiality obligations with respect to the information, you are not trading on inside information. If you're in the plane when the door blows up, you're just the first person with material public information. You're not trading on material non-public information. See, e.g. https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/misappropriation_theor…

Better question can the flight attendant buy puts? What about the air traffic controller who handled the emergency? It’s the exact same information.

This is where insider trading rules just don’t make sense. Here’s a good example. You can buy credit card data from Bloomberg that will give you near accurate information on revenue. For earnings, you can pay to see if a company will meet expectations and trade off that information. If you work for the company, it’s insider trading. If you work for the credit card companies and get the same info and trade on it, it is also insider trading.

Maybe we should make insider trading, trading off information that isn’t public.

Re: Is it insider trading if I bought Boeing puts while inside the wrecked airplane?

#115
post #78

Ctrl-F Casino Royale During the film, the terrorist financier Le Chiffre uses a Ugandan warlord's money to short-sell stock in Skyfleet, thus betting the money on the company's failure. The banker plans to bring about said failure by destroying the company's prototype airliner. After his original bomb-maker is killed by James Bond in Madagascar, another is hired to complete the job. The bomb-maker infiltrates Miami I…

Huh, so sabotage of a flight on a plane where it's very plausibly related to ongoing quality control is a viable method of generating profit without suspicion - so long as the mechanic who sabotaged door to low off isn't the same one making playing the stock?

Re: Is it insider trading if I bought Boeing puts while inside the wrecked airplane?

#116
post #91

UK rules differ from the US there is a 3-point test for insider trading: 1. The information has to be specific - Yes - you should sell Boeing 2. Would a reasonable investor take this information into account when making a decision to trade - Yes - this seems quite clear 3. The information must be non public - IIRC disclosure to a large group of people - in this case the perhaps 200ish people on the plane knowing it h…

On the third point, what if the plane was privately-owned or chartered?

Re: Is it insider trading if I bought Boeing puts while inside the wrecked airplane?

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if you are on a plane and door blows out but the only other passenger on the plane happens to be a Boeing exec by sheer coincidence?

I know what you're thinking, but no, you still can't push him out.

[deleted]

Re: Is it insider trading if I bought Boeing puts while inside the wrecked airplane?

#119
post #113

No, it is not. If you do not have a fiduciary relationship with Boeing and you have no confidentiality obligations with respect to the information, you are not trading on inside information. If you're in the plane when the door blows up, you're just the first person with material public information. You're not trading on material non-public information. See, e.g. https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/misappropriation_theor…

Better question can the flight attendant buy puts? What about the air traffic controller who handled the emergency? It’s the exact same information. This is where insider trading rules just don’t make sense. Here’s a good example. You can buy credit card data from Bloomberg that will give you near accurate information on revenue. For earnings, you can pay to see if a company will meet expectations and trade off that…

>Maybe we should make insider trading, trading off information that isn’t public.

This is stupid. It disincentivizes people who make a living externally auditing/investigating companies

Re: Is it insider trading if I bought Boeing puts while inside the wrecked airplane?

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if you are on a plane and door blows out but the only other passenger on the plane happens to be a Boeing exec by sheer coincidence?

I know what you're thinking, but no, you still can't push him out.

Ayyoooo
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