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NASA regains contact with mini-helicopter on Mars

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Re: NASA regains contact with mini-helicopter on Mars

#111
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun fact - the cameras that captures Perseverance's landing are also Linux based and vim is installed - at least on the later model that I worked with.

What make & model of camera are these?

FLIR Chameleon3 connected via USB to a Intel Atom Linux SBC running ffmpeg to encode the video.

See EDLCAM in https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11214-020-00765-9

Re: NASA regains contact with mini-helicopter on Mars

#112
post #83
post #81

For me, being listed as a contributor to Ingenuity is one of the highlights of my career in software development. I mean, I just fixed a bug in some python library, but that was enough to get the GitHub Ingenuity badge. And when ever I am asked for a fun fact about myself, I can answer: some of my code is flying on Mars :)

Ingenuity is running Python?

[deleted]

Re: NASA regains contact with mini-helicopter on Mars

#113
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know the answer to your question, but for context here are the weights of Mars rovers: Sojourner (1997): 11 kg Spirit & Opportunity (2004): 185 kg Curiosity (2011): 899 kg Perseverance (2020): 1,025 kg

I know these are much larger - I’m just really curious about the dynamics of scaling up rotorcraft & why it is problematic. ie - do rotor physics become impracticality large or fast at some point for materials science, or is it purely a space problem for rocket launches.

I have led efforts building Chinook style tandem rotors with 2 sets of blades from a size like the Trex 800, powered by a 2 stroke engine, as well as 40kg max takeoff quad-planes with both electric quadrotor and 2 stroke engine (for forward motion).

But because I was the main lead and pushing the pace so fast, I wished I did it with a more rigorous aero-engineering to it. I started both projects with barely any experience developing aircraft.

Thinking about your question, here are my 2 cents:

The biggest thing I stugged with is how the vibrations and the accompanying harmonics on the sytem as the rotors spin up and down. I could see it on the logs as the rotors spin through certain Hz, there's would spikes in virbational ampiltudes at predictable frequencies. As the blades get bigger the forces (probably) goes up. Sometimes, these frequecies (especially the lower ones) are at the range where its very hard to find the right materials to damp it out of the control and sensing electronics. Ingenuity probably deals with a virbration range that well into the hundreds/thousand of Hz and I do remember that renge is not a difficult range to damp out, vis a vis the low tens of hertz.

Also, the harmonics is related to ground resonance. I had built my tandem with "skids" that are rigidly attached to the rest of the frame. When the system made contact with the ground on just one skid, that one skid becomes a pivot, the vibration has no where to go and I witnessed first hand, first time, what ground resonance can do to mechanical systems. I can never forget seeing M4 through to M8 hex holt beads being sheared clean off after the resonance event. Only later did I find out that in full scale systems, they have dampeners between the main body and the skids of the aircraft. See https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IIC-oBzLYhQ ;

Staying in flight is not as hard. But getting the ssytem to land and spin down proerly was big pain without understanding ground resonance and its effect on mechanical design. When I saw the little puny legs of Ingenuity, this experience of mine came into mind and I was glad they had legs like to damp out vibrations as it came down to land.

Then there is the relation between the mechanical vibration regimes of the system, the polilng rates of the foundational flight sensors and the freqency of the main flight stability and movement control loop itself.

With bigger systems, the cables (for signal and power) could run longer too (becoming long long antennas), which means you can run into problems with noise of various origins. If I'd do it again, something like CAN bus would probably be something I look at seriously. Bigger systems also draws more power, and that can have an impact on how much management is needed for noise. Bigger power draw usually also means heavy power store & delivery system, which affects CG management, when then means you can't move things around to management noise. At some point, I felt like I was doing dancing a multi-factorial show.

I wished I could be clearer. Perhaps someone more qualified can chime in.

Re: NASA regains contact with mini-helicopter on Mars

#114

I'm curious how long they expected it to remain in working condition. NASA has a habit of underestimating lifespans by a comical amount. It will be like "we expected the rover to operate for 10 weeks and that was 6 years ago". I think the most extreme example is Voyager 1, which was on a 5-year mission that reached nearly 50 years.

They planned for three 90 second flights prior to launch. After those worked they transitioned over to longer "operations demo" flights and those were extended tentatively out to 12 flights. After the 21st flight they just stopped manually allocating labor and funding to the project for a set number of flights and instead gave them a running budget for indefinite continued operations. So while "strictly speaking" the…

It sounds as though mission life has as much to do with funding for ground staff (not something I ever considered) at least as much as it has to do with the life expectancy of deployed hardware.

Re: NASA regains contact with mini-helicopter on Mars

#115

I'm curious how long they expected it to remain in working condition. NASA has a habit of underestimating lifespans by a comical amount. It will be like "we expected the rover to operate for 10 weeks and that was 6 years ago". I think the most extreme example is Voyager 1, which was on a 5-year mission that reached nearly 50 years.

I always feel like NASA has mastered the basic "under promise, over deliver" philosophy that keeps the lights on and the next missions funded. I'd love to be a fly on the wall at who they get to tap dance in front of the congressional committee or how they schmooze the decadal people to rise above the rest.

Re: NASA regains contact with mini-helicopter on Mars

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

is this a joke about America?

It's a joke about mass vs weight, since the imperial "pound" is unspecific as to being pound-_mass_ or pound-_force_, the latter being based on Earth's standard gravitional field. The conversion of kilograms, mass, to pound-force, weight, relies explicitly on the given acceleration of Earth's gravity, ~9.8 m/s². Since Mars has a gravity with acceleration ~3.7 m/s², for two things that weight the same on Earth and Mar…

It's still 145 lbf and 145 lb mass. Under Earth's gravity the numbers are identical. (That is, a mass of 1 lb has a weight of 1 lbf).

The 10x difference comes in with metric units (kg and N).

Edit: might as well mention the rocketry connection... Probably the most well-known use of pounds-force is when discussing thrust of rocket engines (and other means of jet propulsion).

Re: NASA regains contact with mini-helicopter on Mars

#117
post #81

For me, being listed as a contributor to Ingenuity is one of the highlights of my career in software development. I mean, I just fixed a bug in some python library, but that was enough to get the GitHub Ingenuity badge. And when ever I am asked for a fun fact about myself, I can answer: some of my code is flying on Mars :)

I don’t think you should be apologetic about the small scale of your contribution: the animating principle of open source is that the aggregation of small contributions like yours can create outcomes that rival those of even the wealthiest organizations in the world.

Re: NASA regains contact with mini-helicopter on Mars

#119
post #81

For me, being listed as a contributor to Ingenuity is one of the highlights of my career in software development. I mean, I just fixed a bug in some python library, but that was enough to get the GitHub Ingenuity badge. And when ever I am asked for a fun fact about myself, I can answer: some of my code is flying on Mars :)

[deleted]

Re: NASA regains contact with mini-helicopter on Mars

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I am misremembering the interview. Maybe the person said that they used to use a hardened IBM power chip?

This information is pretty widely available, e.g. on Wikipedia [1], no need to go off memory. Flight control is done by an FPGA, the main CPU is a Snapdragon 801 running Linux, and it uses Zigbee to communicate with the rover. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingenuity_(helicopter)#Avionic...

At least they won't have any trouble finding a free channel.
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