I see these things in movies, sometimes the last part is a ladder? Why isn't it one big ladder?
I imagine time to get down it is a factor
The case for single-stair multifamily
111–120 of 562 posts
Re: The case for single-stair multifamily
#112No. It’s not only fire that’s a hazard, but a personal safety thing. Most men here probably never experienced being stalked, or having to turn around when your path is through a group of shady characters. In the Midwest, brick/concrete fire stairwells have another benefit: tornado shelters. While a sufficient tornado would decimate any wooden structure, these stairwells provide essential protection from the main haza…
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Re: The case for single-stair multifamily
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wonder if building second stairwells in multifamily buildings is really a cost effective way of mitigating stalking.
Mitigation isn’t the end result - the OP (as I read it) is saying that two exits provides for not being trapped by a stalker. You may still be stalked or approached by a malicious group of actors, but a second exit makes it much more difficult to be cornered.
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Re: The case for single-stair multifamily
#114I'd like to see more discussion of the safety impact; I know the article makes the point that fire deaths per capita are lower in Europe, which lacks the requirement, but it also notes that US housing stock is also much more wooden and therefore at higher risk to begin with. (Wood construction is generally a good thing from a sustainability perspective) Whenever I see this proposed my brain immediately goes to the Gr…
Fire escapes are still a thing, right??
Re: The case for single-stair multifamily
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
A 2nd set of stairs split across multiple units is a trivial matter from a cost perspective. Height restrictions, adding more office space than housing, mandatory parking etc are the real issues. Tiny increases in construction costs get wiped out when there’s insufficient housing stock.
There is a strong correlation between construction costs and housing stock.
Not in locations where there’s a housing shortage.
Outside of skyscrapers building housing is cheap, it’s land and permission that’s the issue.
Re: The case for single-stair multifamily
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's fucked up that you have problem with society and you think the way to solve it is building code.
Maybe, but there's a long tradition that suggests maybe it's necessary... "229 If a builder builds a house for someone, and does not construct it properly, and the house which he built falls in and kills its owner, then that builder shall be put to death." - Hammurabi's Code, ~1750 BC
I meant solving stalking and general violence level of the population with staircases :)
Re: The case for single-stair multifamily
#117European here. I can't even put to words my embafflement upon having learnt that you US folks need two staircases.
I'm often surprised when posters identify themselves as "European" which encompasses such a broad range of cultures, biotypes, and ecosystems that it makes any comparison of the US way vs the European way virtually impossible.
That said, when looking at the reasons for fire safety in the U.S., there are many factors to consider which may or may not apply in parts of Europe
-- Frequency of wildfires. They are not uncommon in my southwest corner, so fire safety is taken very seriously
-- Proximity of emergency services. It can't be assumed that the local fire department is a few minutes drive away
-- Building materials. Materials that are fire-proof are rarely earthquake proof.
Any of these may or may not apply in any particular case but "embafflement" seems pretty extreme.
Re: The case for single-stair multifamily
#118European here. I can't even put to words my embafflement upon having learnt that you US folks need two staircases.
American here. I can't even put to words my embafflement upon learning that 72 people died in the Grenfell Tower fire in Europe in 2017.
Re: The case for single-stair multifamily
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have yet to understand why people have made land value tax a thing. As I understand it, land value and improvements are already taxed but a land value tax would only tax land value. Can someone make this make sense? Why would this promote development?
The classic example is the lot that sits empty or has a parking structure on it in Manhattan. Today, you pay very little tax on the empty land or parking lot because you’re taxed on that total value of the land and improvements. This discourages building stuff sometimes. With land value tax, you’d be taxed on what someone would pay you for that land with improvements similar to surrounding, so it’s advantageous to bu…
That's a classic example used by proponents of LVT. But what is another example?
Terry buys a house in a run down, blighted, poor/cheap neighborhood, and along with other neighbors, starts to revitalize it. 15 years later, the formerly blighted neighborhood has become hip, due to the work and care Terry and others put in to it. Property prices increase as rich people want to move to the cool neighborhood, and now Terry has a hard time affording the taxes, and is forced to sell and essentially evicted from the neighborhood he helped build, because a rich person would rather live there.
Re: The case for single-stair multifamily
#120I'd like to see more discussion of the safety impact; I know the article makes the point that fire deaths per capita are lower in Europe, which lacks the requirement, but it also notes that US housing stock is also much more wooden and therefore at higher risk to begin with. (Wood construction is generally a good thing from a sustainability perspective) Whenever I see this proposed my brain immediately goes to the Gr…
The intention of the double stairwell requirement, is that you are not supposed to have your access point to the stairwell by an obstruction, and there should be a maximum access time to the stairwell. One notable requirement of single-stair buildings where they are legal in the US, is that 1. the height is generally determined by the height of the fire ladders available, providing a second means of egress 2. the sin…
> 1. the height is generally determined by the height of the fire ladders available, providing a second means of egress
This is an interesting requirement and makes me wonder if some of the need for two staircases comes from the proximity - or lack thereof - to fire services. I'd be sitting in a burning home for a long time if I had to wait for a fire ladder.