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Re: undefined

#111

Post by HorizonXP »

ImprovedSilence wrote: post #89
untog wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The navigation paradigma Microsoft uses is not for me, I prefer Apple's more natural approach. I'm fascinated to know what is "natural" about Apple's approach. I think it is "natural" because you are used to it. To me, it feels overly (/incredibly) app-centric. Both Android and Windows Phone (to differing degrees) feel far more task based: "You have a photo. What would you like to do with it?", as opposed to "You ope…

"By example, when I look up a contact in my address book in Windows Phone, it allows me to look up my history with that person. Emails, texts, IMs, tweets, everything- all in one place, because who thinks "Dave tweeted that at me" over "Dave sent that to me"? By contrast, iOS keeps every interaction siloed in-app." that's a very good point. And that sounds like a FANTASTIC feature I'd love to have on my phone. your r…

And it's funny how BlackBerry has been doing this for several years now, but people seemed to have just glossed over it. RIM has had NUMEROUS missteps over the last few years, but they do have some good ideas in there. Let's hope they shine this week with BB10.

Oh, and let me get the obligatory, "BlackBerry? They still exist?" out of the way.

Re: undefined

#112

Post by chris_wot »

horsehead wrote: post #110
chris_wot wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a world of short attentions spans oh look an eagle! This whole talk about low attention spans, is it backed by any real research? I'd have thought folks on Hacker News would have longer attention spans. After all, most are developers who need to get into the zone when coding, and often read copious amounts of documentation. This sort of thing requires concentration!

So what you're saying (as heard from someone looking to get into the software developer field sometime soon), is that as a developer you still do a lot of documentation reading and you dont just have it all stored upstairs? If so, that is actually encouraging!

You'll always be reading in this industry :-)

Re: undefined

#113

Post by bgilroy26 »

gbog wrote: post #100
mladenkovacevic wrote: post #98

Here's why Windows possibly has a shot at regaining a meaningful presence in the mobile space. 1) the untapped market potential is still huge (I myself don't own an Android or an iPhone - although I'll be buying an Android phone soon) 2) The customers gained by Android and iOS are not as loyal or as committed to each platform as the early adopters of the home PC were. When you bought your first PC, you usually spent…

What I hope is that another mobile OS eat Android on its left: even more open, even less linked to big corps. This OS would be to Android what Linux is to Unix.

Would you consider Cyanogenmod to be to stock Android OSes what Linux is to Unix?

Re: undefined

#114

Post by RandallBrown »

manmal wrote: post #16

I have played around a bit with a Lumia some weeks ago (it was available earlier in Europe), and I have to say I was quite disappointed. Microsoft waited too long with screen resolution upgrades, and its low resolution makes it feel like an Android from 2 years ago. That makes it hard to trump modern Androids like the Galaxy Nexus UI-beauty-wise. The navigation paradigma Microsoft uses is not for me, I prefer Apple's…

Windows Phone is a breath of fresh air, design wise. I'm not saying iPhone is ugly, but I've just used it for a few years so it no longer seems as shiny and nice. Windows Phone is fun to use and I really enjoy some aspects of it.

The Lumia is a good phone, but it's still not as good as my iPhone 4. The screen and camera are what really ruin it for me.

Software wise, I miss a lot of apps, and while some of the stuff windows does with merging contacts between twitter, Facebook, etc. is cool, it falls down when it isn't done perfectly (which is rare)

I will say using a Windows Phone is MUCH "nicer" than an Android phone, but it still has a ways to go feature wise.

Re: undefined

#115

Post by RandallBrown »

podperson wrote: post #10
DodgyEggplant wrote: post #2

For years MS genes to arrive late and win worked: Windows after Apple, Word after Word-perfect, Excel after Lotus/Borland, networks after Novel, Xbox after Nintendo. They didn't succeed to change this mode, although it doesn't work anymore (search, Zune, mobile). Future is for leaders or way-fast movers.

Microsoft won for one simple reason -- the licensing deal for DOS. (Not that it wasn't smart and ruthless and good at executing.) IBM made DOS the dominant desktop OS, and the licensing deal allowed Microsoft to enable clone makers to displace IBM (without displacing DOS). Microsoft's legendary persistence -- fast following rival products and iterating them until they didn't suck and eventually drove competitors out…

I agree with what you're saying, but since this is the Internet I'm going to nitpick one little tiny point.

Windows CE has done just fine. It's not as huge a profit maker as Office or Windows, but it's still used on millions of devices worldwide. It ships in millions of Ford cars, ATMs, billboards, etc.

Re: undefined

#116

Post by RandallBrown »

huggyface wrote: post #47
andrewljohnson wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a gigantic difference in how an Android and iPhone navigate. Develop the same app for both and you will see that clearly. The big difference is Android uses a standard back button for all applications. This leads Android users to end up mashing a lot of buttons at random, to try and get what they want - it's actually quite a bad UI, and it was just translated from the web clumsily. On iPhone, each app has it…

The big difference is Android uses a standard back button for all applications. This leads Android users to end up mashing a lot of buttons at random, to try and get what they want - it's actually quite a bad UI, and it was just translated from the web clumsily. This is seriously one of the most W.T.F. comments I've ever read on HN. No exaggerating. The Android back button is incredibly consistent, and the only peopl…

I've found the back button on Android and Windows Phone to be inconsistent. Sometimes it will dump me back to the home screen when I expected it to take me to the last screen I was on in the app. It's not that terrible, but it happens more often than it should.

Re: undefined

#117

Post by RandallBrown »

jodoherty wrote: post #74

This doesn't surprise me too much. I just got a Nokia Lumia 900 (I'm using it right now in fact) and from a design and usability standpoint it really impresses me. Everything's so smooth and fluid, and the interface is so clean and consistent that it's just fun to use. It's so good that I could care less that the screen doesn't have some super high pixel density, that there's not that many good apps, or even that the…

I just got a Lumia 900 and I think it's the only phone that is competitive with the iPhone. It looks fantastic and it performs well. Seriously, there isn't a non-iPhone device out there that can compete with the design of the Lumia 900.

Unfortunately, I'm having a hard time dealing with the screen. Text looks like shit, and since most of what I do with my phone involves reading text, this is annoying. I hate that I have to zoom almost every email I get just to get something legible. (That could be more to do with all the wasted space in the email app though)

The camera is shit. It's ok in good lighting and completely worthless in low light. I loved that my iPhone camera was good enough that I could capture a moment wherever I was and it would look fine on a computer screen. That's really all I need from the camera. I can't do that with my Lumia because it just won't work in most situations.

This could be just my problem, but I don't like the big form factor. My thumb just can't reach the whole screen without uncomfortably stretching. Since Windows Phone navigation relies heavily on the back button, if I'm ever holding it with my right hand, I can barely use it. The big screen is great, but since Windows Phone uses empty space as such a big design element, it cuts down the usable space to be even less than what it was on my iPhone in lots of apps.

I really like the flow of most Windows Phone apps, but right now I haven't seen any developers do a good job of making their app stand out. Every app looks exactly the same, with different words in the lists. I don't know if it's just because the platform is still new, or if the APIs are too limiting.

But for 100 bucks on contract, it's a good phone, despite all my problems with it.

Re: undefined

#118

Post by manmal »

untog wrote: post #81
manmal wrote: post #16

I have played around a bit with a Lumia some weeks ago (it was available earlier in Europe), and I have to say I was quite disappointed. Microsoft waited too long with screen resolution upgrades, and its low resolution makes it feel like an Android from 2 years ago. That makes it hard to trump modern Androids like the Galaxy Nexus UI-beauty-wise. The navigation paradigma Microsoft uses is not for me, I prefer Apple's…

The navigation paradigma Microsoft uses is not for me, I prefer Apple's more natural approach. I'm fascinated to know what is "natural" about Apple's approach. I think it is "natural" because you are used to it. To me, it feels overly (/incredibly) app-centric. Both Android and Windows Phone (to differing degrees) feel far more task based: "You have a photo. What would you like to do with it?", as opposed to "You ope…

iOS' UI tries to emulate things we already know (through metaphors & skeumorphism). What I meant by iOS being "more natural" is exactly this - while Apple emphasizes on reminding users of things they already know, Microsoft has chosen to kill many such analogies by purpose. The Zune/Phone 7 interface tries to get the max out of the fact that it's a digital environment, where you do not need beveled buttons or stitched leather ribbons. While I think I understand why MS is doing this - increased focus on presented data, less distractions for the eye, less energy usage on AMOLED displays - I don't think I particularly like its plainness, emotionally. And I believe that many people feel the same, mabye unconsciously.

The other thing is that, on iOS, there is a context (app) for everything, with a dedicated meaning to every screen. I agree that Microsoft's approach to navigation is not bad, and it surely fares better in some aspects. But dedicated context is often lost when apps act as a "hub". I think that this kind of information presentation leads to information overburden, the kind of which prevents people from opening an app more often than once a week.

Re: undefined

#119

Post by manmal »

ConstantineXVI wrote: post #75
manmal wrote: post #16

I have played around a bit with a Lumia some weeks ago (it was available earlier in Europe), and I have to say I was quite disappointed. Microsoft waited too long with screen resolution upgrades, and its low resolution makes it feel like an Android from 2 years ago. That makes it hard to trump modern Androids like the Galaxy Nexus UI-beauty-wise. The navigation paradigma Microsoft uses is not for me, I prefer Apple's…

IMHO, if you used Android phones 2 years ago (I have, they sucked), you'd be killing to have a Lumia. I find the overall experience stunning despite the relatively low resolution (which is still plenty usable); their attention to detail should have Apple quaking. ICS is just now catching up in terms of polish; and they still have ways to go. I'm using the Galaxy Nexus now, but I was impressed with the Lumia enough th…

I'm also using a Galaxy Nexus beside some iOS devices, and I can't see what you are seeing - Windows Phone is plain anti-polish to me. Smooth animations, a good typeface, and exaggerated visual hierarchy are all there is to it. UI widgets developers can choose from are also very sparse - they are good for CRUD apps with low information density, but that's about it. I currently develop & design for iOS and Android, and I don't think I would want to do that for WP7. I hope WP8 has more polish, widgets-wise.

Re: undefined

#120

Post by patrickk »

cageface wrote: post #87

In C# I think MS has the nicest language of the three and I can't imagine Visual Studio is as bad as Xcode 4. I'm keeping a close eye on the WP market. If sales pick up at all I'm going to try my hand at a few apps. iOS is stagnating and the app market is absurdly oversaturated and Android is still the public access television of mobile.

I've used both visual studio (express) and Xcode 3. I much prefer visual studio.

Your point about C# vs. Objective-C is an important one that may have been glossed over somewhat. I can't bear Objective-C, I find it's syntax highly confusing and difficult to parse (my own subjective opinion). C# is much more pleasant. Microsoft could win over developers because of this if they are smart about it.

Now only if I could write apps in Python...!

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