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Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

nytimes.com

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Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#111

Post by Kon-Peki »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #89
thebruce87m wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ICE cars have to go to a gas station every ~500 miles. For some EV owners like me, the trade off in time saved refuelling an ICE car is spent on charging on rare long journeys. I actually save time overall. But each use-case is different.

I would filled up twice on a trip between Ottawa and Quebec City in a gasoline car in the winter. Never let your tank get below 50% in case of emergency, and there's no such thing as a "destination charger" for ICE's.

In the old days, they used to say that if you let your tank get too low in the winter, you could end up with moisture in the tank. It's probably been a while since that was actually true.

It seems that fewer and fewer people actually have any plan at all for emergencies.

Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#112

Post by Rohansi »

fortran77 wrote: post #35
Im_your_dada wrote: post #25

Also door handles freeze as Musk genius design failed to include cold climate drivers. Now inapp unlock is an upgrade that you have to pay. You would have to pay me to own a Tesla.

Agreed, but that's only on the budget-end "3" Model. I think Tesla made a mistake branding their entry-level model as Tesla. They should have called it a "Yearn" or a "Strive"

I have a Model 3 and can unlatch/open the driver door from the app. There's no paid upgrade for that.

Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#113

Post by RetpolineDrama »

zdragnar wrote: post #44
wyldfire wrote: post #4

I'm not sure that this warrants such a generalization from the title. The article itself goes on to quote: > “This is not a categorical problem for electric vehicles,” he added, “because it has largely been sorted out in other places.” > ... Cold weather is likely to be less of an issue as companies update electric vehicles models. Even in the last few years, companies have developed capabilities that allow newer mod…

Tesla manual says you need to precondition the battery for upwards of an hour before fast charging in cold weather. That's clearly not an option for the cars that are abandoned and dead because they couldn't charge. It's also not just the one station that was an issue. One guy left his Tesla at the airport parking lot, came back after his trip, and had to pay to get it towed to a charger.

>That's clearly not an option for the cars that are abandoned and dead because they couldn't charge.

Plugging in to a charger provides all the power to heat (and slowly charge) the battery, you just won't get full speed while the battery is below-freezing.

Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#114

Post by RetpolineDrama »

tw04 wrote: post #6

90% of the complaints appear to be from folks who have no ability to charge at home. I would agree with the sentiment that if you have to drive any significant distance daily, and live in an apartment where you can’t charge at home, having an EV is going to be a giant pain and it might be a little too soon to go that route. I’d imagine we’re still several years away from having robust enough charging infrastructure a…

This is why apartments are stupid designs, and we should tax them appropriately.

Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#115

Post by _ea1k »

joezydeco wrote: post #107
_ea1k wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used an EV for years with a 120V. It also would "take days to charge", but 12 hours would net ~24%. It is surprisingly usable, especially if there is a nearby DCFC bottom charge at if you ever get a little low. Of course, there are caveats. If it is cold and the vehicle has to be charged at the street, charge times will be much longer. But he's right that people often underestimate the usefulness of L1 charging, ev…

If the vehicle is cold soaked and only has a minimal amount of charge left, won't most of it be consumed by the EV trying to preheat the battery? Seems like you're then trapped in a corner case that you can't get out of: not enough energy to allow for any kind of charge at all.

Yes, and it sounds like this is exactly what happened in some cases. People would charge hunt until they were out, wait in line for hours, then get to the unit with a cold soaked battery.

Even if the charger is working perfectly, the first 30 minutes might be spent just running the battery heater. It might even be worse with rear drive model 3, which unfortunately might also be a big part of the Uber rental fleet.

It is a really odd situation, so most people would likely be seeing it for the first time.

Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#116

Post by Symbiote »

Kon-Peki wrote: post #96
_ea1k wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of cold towns in the US that didn't have the same issues as Chicago. There's more to it than just "Cold weather". TBH, perhaps the more general problem is that EVs aren't fully ready for dense cities yet. Or maybe dense cities aren't ready for EVs.

To be clear, when this problem was happening in Chicago, the temperature was a lot colder than Oslo. Like -30°C with a wind chill approaching -50°C. That's not "cold weather", that's "insanely cold weather". According to Wikipedia, it has never been anywhere close to that cold in Oslo. And yet, due to the climate change effect on the arctic jet stream, Chicago sees this kind of temperature for a few days in 2-3 out o…

Is the wind chill more than marginally relevant to a car?

People lose heat through evaporation, which is worse if there's wind.

Objects don't, and normal wind speeds are usually well below driving speeds anyway.

Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#117

Post by smileysteve »

PH95VuimJjqBqy wrote: post #101
xyst wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real blunder in this country is the lack of viable alternative transportation options in a majority of the nation. Visited NYC recently and didn’t need to rent a car. Primarily took the bus, ferry, and rail car/trains. In some cases I just walked from my hotel to the destination. Could have rented one of the e-bikes as well. Transportation costs for just 1 week were less than $100 (a quarter of this was because o…

quick, someone tell that small rural community of 600 people they need public transportation! When people express opinions like this you immediately know they live in the city and think everyone else does too.

Unless you look back 70 years and realize that many small towns only existed because they had rail (passenger and goods). (and/or private bus service). Turns out, getting your goods to market before every person had a car was a requirement.

Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#118

Post by engineer_22 »

_ea1k wrote: post #81
boh wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only place where they provide specific examples of how things are "largely sorted" is Norway and they themselves admit: > the majority of people in Norway live in houses, not apartments, and nearly 90 percent of electric vehicle owners have their own charging stations at home, he said.

There are a lot of cold towns in the US that didn't have the same issues as Chicago. There's more to it than just "Cold weather". TBH, perhaps the more general problem is that EVs aren't fully ready for dense cities yet. Or maybe dense cities aren't ready for EVs.

I think it is just people needing to get ready for EVs. Care and maintenance is different from ICE's, and folks are still learning what to do and when.

Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#119

Post by FooBarBizBazz »

boh wrote: post #7
wyldfire wrote: post #4

I'm not sure that this warrants such a generalization from the title. The article itself goes on to quote: > “This is not a categorical problem for electric vehicles,” he added, “because it has largely been sorted out in other places.” > ... Cold weather is likely to be less of an issue as companies update electric vehicles models. Even in the last few years, companies have developed capabilities that allow newer mod…

The only place where they provide specific examples of how things are "largely sorted" is Norway and they themselves admit: > the majority of people in Norway live in houses, not apartments, and nearly 90 percent of electric vehicle owners have their own charging stations at home, he said.

This is what I keep saying. The EV transition is bound up with the housing crisis. Not only do you need to find a place to go to sleep and recharge yourself each night; now you also need a garage for your car to do the same.

Solve that, and EVs will become more viable. Only the "road trip problem" will remain.

Edit: Let me be clear. I am not saying that EVs are causing the housing crisis. That would be crazy. But I am saying that the housing crisis is blocking the adoption of EVs.

Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#120

Post by PH95VuimJjqBqy »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #110
PH95VuimJjqBqy wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

quick, someone tell that small rural community of 600 people they need public transportation! When people express opinions like this you immediately know they live in the city and think everyone else does too.

In my experience in Canada, small rural communities typically do have public transportation. Small rural communities generally have a lot of elderly people, so most small towns provide a wheelchair accessible taxi-like service.

while retirement communities exist, that certainly isn't what I was describing.
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