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Modeless Vim

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Re: Modeless Vim

#111

Post by nextlevelwizard »

stevebmark wrote: post #95

I've always disliked that Bram calls Vim a "modal" editor. All this means is your keyboard and mouse actions do different things based on what "mode" of the editor you're in. All editors are "modal" editors. In VSCode for example, if you've focused the search box, pressing up loads the previous search, compared to if you've focused the code area, pressing up goes up a line. Vim purports to be more efficient than othe…

You are confusing modes with different programs.

In VSCode you have your editor program in the middle that does the editing things. Then when you invoke your search box it over takes the control away from your editor program and you are now in the search program which behaves however differently it behaves.

Re: Modeless Vim

#112

Post by Aaronmacaron »

> The config files in this repository turn vim into a modeless editor. Instead of remembering cryptic commands, you can use standard key binds, like Ctrl+S to save, select text using Shift+←/→/↑/↓, and copy/paste using Ctrl+C/V.

> This configuration is not meant for the aficionado who prefers vim over graphical editors. This is meant for people who normally use GUI editors (like VSCode), but sometimes need an editor that can run in a terminal.

I think it's unrealistic to expect users who only occasionally use vim to edit the odd config file in the terminal to fiddle with a custom vim setup.

If you're really looking for a good editor that behaves like GUI editors I really recommend micro [1]. It has mouse support by default, syntax highlighting for many languages out of the box, most keybinds are the same as in GUI editors and copy/paste works like expected.

[1] https://github.com/zyedidia/micro

Re: Modeless Vim

#113

Post by stevebmark »

colordrops wrote: post #104
stevebmark wrote: post #95

I've always disliked that Bram calls Vim a "modal" editor. All this means is your keyboard and mouse actions do different things based on what "mode" of the editor you're in. All editors are "modal" editors. In VSCode for example, if you've focused the search box, pressing up loads the previous search, compared to if you've focused the code area, pressing up goes up a line. Vim purports to be more efficient than othe…

That's not really the same thing though is it? Each of vim's modes are extremely complex with their own usage of the vim grammar. The "modal" behavior you describe is very simple.

They are the same thing of course, complexity is not relevant to the definition.

The main difference is Vim's editing modes are imperative. You have to glue together small painful commands to do what you want. Modern editors are declarative - you say "I want to move this file" or "I want to rename this variable" or "I'll drag this split here" and they do the rest.

Re: Modeless Vim

#114

Post by nextlevelwizard »

wanderingstan wrote: post #66
null_point wrote: post #61

This reading this for me is like watching someone order eggs sunny-side up but then they scope out the yokes and toss them; eating only the egg whites. Similes and feels aside, I wonder which situations using vim in this way comes up that you wouldn't just use your preferred editor for. I know you can set an editor for things like git, but couldn't you use a GUI editor?

Happens often when one needs to ssh into a remote server and edit some files, sometimes with tmux to boot.

Why not use vscodes ssh plugin? Feels like that is what you actually want.

Re: Modeless Vim

#115

Post by nextlevelwizard »

pvg wrote: post #8

After years of vi users trying to turn every perfectly working program into a worse version of vi, it's heartening to see we're taking the fight for sanity and justice back to their territory.

Just fact that ones you learn vim motions it is hard to let go since they are so powerful

Re: Modeless Vim

#116

Post by thayne »

redundantly wrote: post #53
jjcm wrote: post #37

Conceptually the reasons the author give for this (syntax highlighting and other features of vim outclass other terminal-based editors) make total sense. That said there's something absolutely defiling about this. It's like installing a V8 in a Tesla, or replacing the pumpkin in pumpkin pie. I love that it will make VIM more accessible for more people, but I hate how they do it. Kudos to the author.

> It's like installing a V8 in a Tesla, or replacing the pumpkin in pumpkin pie. Most pumpkin pies are actually made with butternut squash and other similar squashes, not pumpkin. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cucurbita_moschata https://www.thekitchn.com/whats-actually-in-your-canned-pump...

But butternut squash is pretty similar to pumpkin. They are both winter squash, and the definition of pumpkin is a little fuzzy anyway. This would be more like replacing the pumpkin with apples.

Re: Modeless Vim

#118

Post by thekiptxt »

stevebmark wrote: post #95

I've always disliked that Bram calls Vim a "modal" editor. All this means is your keyboard and mouse actions do different things based on what "mode" of the editor you're in. All editors are "modal" editors. In VSCode for example, if you've focused the search box, pressing up loads the previous search, compared to if you've focused the code area, pressing up goes up a line. Vim purports to be more efficient than othe…

What makes you think that having the focus on the search box vs the code area in VSC constitutes a different mode in the same way as vim normal vs insert modes? You haven’t explained what you consider a mode to be.

I think there is something very clearly different in vim, as first time users must have it explained to them that typing `j` when their cursor is at the start of the code area will do very different things depending on the mode they’re in. It’s a paradigm not present in editors like VSCode. This difference is usefully characterized as “modal”.

Re: Modeless Vim

#119

Post by teo_zero »

stevebmark wrote: post #95

I've always disliked that Bram calls Vim a "modal" editor. All this means is your keyboard and mouse actions do different things based on what "mode" of the editor you're in. All editors are "modal" editors. In VSCode for example, if you've focused the search box, pressing up loads the previous search, compared to if you've focused the code area, pressing up goes up a line. Vim purports to be more efficient than othe…

Saying that VSCode is a modal editor because of the search dialog is like listing cars among USB peripherals because they have a USB port.

Re: Modeless Vim

#120

Post by akho »

mikepurvis wrote: post #80
Waterluvian wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently coffee cake has no coffee in it so we really can’t believe anything anymore.

But coffee cake is the cake you have with coffee, not made from it.

well maybe pumpkin pie is a pie you have with pumpkin
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