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Is htmx Just Another JavaScript Framework?

htmx.org

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Re: Is htmx Just Another JavaScript Framework?

#111

Post by marius-sw »

donatj wrote: post #67
hellcow wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You set it up once. It takes a few hours, maybe a day. Until you need to update a dependency on a large codebase, which takes weeks because dependency A doesn't work with dependency B version X, and updating dependency B means that it no longer works with dependency C version Y, and so on. And nobody uses dependency C anymore -- it's unmaintained, so you need to rewrite everything to use dependency D. Then you need…

This is exactly what we’re dealing with right now trying to upgrade TypeScript. We’re stuck on an early version of 4.X because of some dependency triangle I haven’t had time to work out.

Hello, I have nearly 10 years of experience dealing with this. Do you need help?

I am sure I could fix it in a few hours - either I fix it within 5 hours or you don't pay anything. My hourly rate is 150 EUR and my email is in my profile.

Re: Is htmx Just Another JavaScript Framework?

#114

Post by marcosdumay »

game_the0ry wrote: post #53

I never used or looked into htmx, but... I feel like htmx fell into the same hype-cycle as every JS framework - initial interest was enthusiastic, but will likely fade as folks use it in the real world and any holes in the things it tries to solve are exposed. On to the next, I guess... Or go back to Ruby on Rails :)

> Or go back to Ruby on Rails

When you do that, you'll see the point of htmx.

Re: Is htmx Just Another JavaScript Framework?

#115

Post by hobofan »

diggan wrote: post #100
hobofan wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's as arbitrary of a distinction as many other ones you could try to draw. With Rails nothing will happen unless you call `run Rails.application` or run the `rails server` command. That doesn't make it a library.

Obviously, you need to start the application somehow. But when you initially setup a rails project, do you write the code that bootstraps the application? Or do you just run `rails server` and the application figures out what to load, and starts the application for you?

But when you initially setup a React project, do you write the code that bootstraps the application? Or do you just run (`pnpm create vite` +) `pnpm run dev` and the application figures out what to load, and starts the application for you?

We can do this all day...

Re: Is htmx Just Another JavaScript Framework?

#116

Post by endisneigh »

resoluteteeth wrote: post #52
endisneigh wrote: post #24

htmx is one of those things, like SQLite on the server, that you will incessantly see on HN, but rarely see used at large profitable companies. Say you use python and Django. Why use htmx instead of Django templates? Same with ruby and rails, elixir and phoenix, etc. the trend is clearly towards live view/hotwire OR things like server side react. Htmx is in a weird position that makes no sense unless you want to use…

> htmx is one of those things, like SQLite on the server, that you will incessantly see on HN, but rarely see used at large profitable companies. This is true. However: > Say you use python and Django. Why use htmx instead of Django templates? This doesn't make sense and makes me think you might be confused about what htmx is. The purpose of htmx is precisely so you can just use things like django and render pages on…

I understand this, but my point is all the major frameworks have their equivalents to Hotwire, which don’t require you to even use JavaScript at all.

Re: Is htmx Just Another JavaScript Framework?

#117

Post by chatmasta »

exabrial wrote: post #94

HTMX is signaling they're around for the long haul, we'll see if they break backwards compatibility or rewrite their API 15 times in the next year. I had one of my dev's do several node/js framework POCs in _September_ last 2023 (current year is Jan 2024 at the time of this writing). Nearly all of the POCs won't even run or build any more because the developers have rewritten something and broke all backwards compati…

It sounds like your devs are not following best practices with regards to lockfiles and version pinning.

Re: Is htmx Just Another JavaScript Framework?

#118

Post by zilti »

endisneigh wrote: post #24

htmx is one of those things, like SQLite on the server, that you will incessantly see on HN, but rarely see used at large profitable companies. Say you use python and Django. Why use htmx instead of Django templates? Same with ruby and rails, elixir and phoenix, etc. the trend is clearly towards live view/hotwire OR things like server side react. Htmx is in a weird position that makes no sense unless you want to use…

HTMX doesn't replace any templates, that is not its purpose. And trends are usually a great indicator of what not to do.

Re: Is htmx Just Another JavaScript Framework?

#119

Post by kugelblitz »

hellcow wrote: post #26
quonn wrote: post #12

So what's the problem with a bundler/transpiler etc? You set it up once. It takes a few hours, maybe a day. Then your platform _is_ TypeScript + React. This abstraction basically never leaks. I never need to look at the transpiled files to find an error. Nobody argues that a C compiler is worse than assembly or that drivers or an operating system are bad.

> You set it up once. It takes a few hours, maybe a day. Until you need to update a dependency on a large codebase, which takes weeks because dependency A doesn't work with dependency B version X, and updating dependency B means that it no longer works with dependency C version Y, and so on. And nobody uses dependency C anymore -- it's unmaintained, so you need to rewrite everything to use dependency D. Then you need…

Yeah, as a full-stack / backend developer using PHP / Symfony (and Twig), I only occasionally need to update the frontend. But then all these problems keep popping up.

Oh, that's the wrong yarn version. Oh, I thought v3 is the newest? But we still use v1? I used v3 in another project. So I need to install different versions? Ah, then I also need different versions of node? Ah, better to use nvm? Because only later versions have corepack, the experimental but recommended tool?

Or do we change back to npm? And why does an install process change a .lock file?

Re: Is htmx Just Another JavaScript Framework?

#120

Post by staminade »

exabrial wrote: post #94

HTMX is signaling they're around for the long haul, we'll see if they break backwards compatibility or rewrite their API 15 times in the next year. I had one of my dev's do several node/js framework POCs in _September_ last 2023 (current year is Jan 2024 at the time of this writing). Nearly all of the POCs won't even run or build any more because the developers have rewritten something and broke all backwards compati…

Any POCs your devs wrote would have been targeted at a specific version of their framework dependencies via their NPM package.json / package-lock.json. So why would any later changes made by framework authors, even backwards incompatible ones, made you unable to run or build them?
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