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SEC has not approved Bitcoin ETFs [fixed]

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Re: SEC has not approved Bitcoin ETFs [fixed]

#111
post #52

I am glad to see the cyberpunk future of hackers impersonating government agencies in order to pump and dump digital currency has finally arrived.

Unlike the long history of price manipulation in traditional markets?

The old crypto chants were that crypto would lead us away from the ills of traditional markets/finance.

Glad to see that it's been watered down to "just as bad as" arguments.

Re: SEC has not approved Bitcoin ETFs [fixed]

#113

The price of BTC initially jumped 3% on the hacked tweet. That's $25bn+ of market cap. The irony is the SEC itself is probably now responsible for the largest crypto pump and dump in history.

The price of BTC initially jumped 3% on the hacked tweet. That's $25bn+ of market cap

more than that. all the alts went up too

Re: SEC has not approved Bitcoin ETFs [fixed]

#114

The price of BTC initially jumped 3% on the hacked tweet. That's $25bn+ of market cap. The irony is the SEC itself is probably now responsible for the largest crypto pump and dump in history.

This is quite literally not a pump and dump by the SEC.

A pump and dump would require the same entity to be doing the buying, pumping up, and then dumping the asset.

The SEC didn’t buy, nor did it sell, nor did it pump up the price (someone pretending to be the SEC pumped up the price).

Even assuming that the “largest pump and dump” claim is correct, at most, the SEC was used for that purpose and isn’t “responsible” for it.

Re: SEC has not approved Bitcoin ETFs [fixed]

#115

POW crypto should be globally banned on ecological grounds.

People say this all the time, but why don't they say that about videogames? or actual mining? I also think access to and freedom to use electricity as you wish is really underrated as a freedom. Maybe consider that if you start this precedent people will end up policing your energy use too

Because even video games have more worth than crypto?

Re: SEC has not approved Bitcoin ETFs [fixed]

#116

Yeah this is really bad for BTC longs. now it will probably be delayed. it's obvious that there is too much fraud and manipulation.. The SEC cannot in good conscious allow an ETF to protect investors (yes, ETFs which have lost all value like UVXY have been approved). Whoever did this furcked over wall street and these funds. Wow. never a dull moment.

Who in the world is still long on crypto? In the past few years we've seen ample evidence that crypto is largely a complete scam, and likewise strong evidence that none of crypto's hoped for value will come to fruition (we didn't see it useful for fighting inflation, it's not being used to avoid sanctions, it certainly isn't being used as a currency, etc). The fact that crypto still has any market value, and that com…

I’m still long bitcoin. Digital permissionless money is useful.

There is no evidence to support your “complete scam” claim.

Re: SEC has not approved Bitcoin ETFs [fixed]

#117
post #80

Is this fabled Bitcoin ETF really going to be the "to the moon" moment that everyone in the ecosystem seems to be expecting? From personal experience, I can't think of anyone who wants to buy Bitcoin but hasn't been able to by now. It takes a few clicks on Coinbase/Robinhood or a similar exchange. Plenty of 401k/IRA managers (including Fidelity) offer it as an option. So what exactly changes once this ETF is live?

I'd expect some upward pressure on price because the ETFs will own bitcoin.

But to your larger, exaggerated ("everyone"), question: It'll make it easier to include bitcoin as a part of larger trades when it can be bought and sold and used as collateral like a regular stock. It'll be another tool used by professional traders. I don't think it'll be a world-changing event, and like you said, it's probably not going to increase aggregate demand as trading desks will shift out of complicated ownership structures to use the ETF instead.

Re: SEC has not approved Bitcoin ETFs [fixed]

#118
post #80

Is this fabled Bitcoin ETF really going to be the "to the moon" moment that everyone in the ecosystem seems to be expecting? From personal experience, I can't think of anyone who wants to buy Bitcoin but hasn't been able to by now. It takes a few clicks on Coinbase/Robinhood or a similar exchange. Plenty of 401k/IRA managers (including Fidelity) offer it as an option. So what exactly changes once this ETF is live?

Being able to buy it in a run-of-the-mill tax advantaged account would be a very big deal.

It's possible to do it now, but not easy.

Re: SEC has not approved Bitcoin ETFs [fixed]

#119
post #80

Is this fabled Bitcoin ETF really going to be the "to the moon" moment that everyone in the ecosystem seems to be expecting? From personal experience, I can't think of anyone who wants to buy Bitcoin but hasn't been able to by now. It takes a few clicks on Coinbase/Robinhood or a similar exchange. Plenty of 401k/IRA managers (including Fidelity) offer it as an option. So what exactly changes once this ETF is live?

The main thing I think is that if there is an ETF then this could be the green light for big MMs to open/re-open crypto MM activities, on its own term and as part of being APs for the ETFs. Wintermute/Portofino/etc are good but if the big guys come in liquidity/order book depth will probably get way better.

Re: SEC has not approved Bitcoin ETFs [fixed]

#120
post #80

Is this fabled Bitcoin ETF really going to be the "to the moon" moment that everyone in the ecosystem seems to be expecting? From personal experience, I can't think of anyone who wants to buy Bitcoin but hasn't been able to by now. It takes a few clicks on Coinbase/Robinhood or a similar exchange. Plenty of 401k/IRA managers (including Fidelity) offer it as an option. So what exactly changes once this ETF is live?

ETF's are so pervasive because they're so easy. VIX futures can be held, but people still buy VIXY and similar products. You can buy literal physical gold, but people still buy GLD et al.

And it hardly matters that wrapping it in an ETF makes it potentially really weird (like how GLD and other gold ETFs are only barely nominally like holding gold, and VIX ETFs often hold cash-settled futures based on the value of a formula that is based on another formula that takes in various parameters of the prices and durations of options which themselves are priced based on the price movements of various equity securities and .........). The depths of weirdness have already been pretty well-explored by existing weird ETFs. A bitcoin ETF wouldn't even be particularly notable levels of weird, imo.

So, just the fact that it makes it really easy is typically a big boon to people getting exposure to whatever financial force the ETF holds.

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