Studies suggest that relying on will power to break habits is hopeless (2019) • Hacker News Board

Re: Studies suggest that relying on will power to break habits is hopeless (2019)

#111

Post by s1artibartfast » Sat, Jan 06, 2024, 11:18 PM UTC

endisneigh wrote: post #98

s1artibartfast wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Instead, we must find strategies that don’t require us to be strong. Similar to the title, is is again framing it as an either/or situation. Reality is that strategy+ willpower is the winning approach. Making change will almost always require strength, but strategy can make that requirement lower. Throwing out your cigarettes/beer/ junk food makes abstinence easier, but it doesnt make abstinence easier than buying m…

Again the article already says all of this. The issue is people judging the entire thing by the title.

then the article is sloppy and inconsistent, because that is the opposite of what the title and conclusion said.

It is like an article with starting and concluding with "bleach is safe to drink", and then discussing the dangers throughout the body.

I dont think everything needs to be dumbed down - but parts of it are literally false and contradictory.

Re: Studies suggest that relying on will power to break habits is hopeless (2019)

#112

Post by a_n » Sat, Jan 06, 2024, 11:18 PM UTC

pi-e-sigma wrote: post #78

a_n wrote: post #59

[flagged]

Exactly. One day I decided to beat Magnus Carlsen at chess and I just did it. It's all about hard work, you don't need good genetics or supporting family, or a bit of luck with being at the right place at the right time. Just iron will, which BTW is also 100% a genetic trait but that simply doesn't matter!

Well that is exactly what I did, I just woke up and decided to become an IOI gold medallist and JEE topper (basically become the smartest high schooler ever) and now both of those are about to become a reality very soon just because of my will power and self belief, and I believe I will keep doing this my whole life, I wanted to learn stuff that probably less than 100 high schoolers knew, so I just sat at my table and learnt it, so if I want to become a billionaire after winning an IOI gold, I will do that, if I want to become an NBA player I will do that, anybody can make excuses, I believe that I (and thus anyone) can achieve anything and I have been achieving everything I have ever wanted because of my hardwork, if you believe you are a talentless human who does not have the genetics to work hard, keep believing that and wasting your life being lazy… but genuinely, self belief and hardwork (will power) and passion is all it takes to be the best, I’ll @ you when I get more proof from my life

Re: Studies suggest that relying on will power to break habits is hopeless (2019)

#113

Post by pi-e-sigma » Sat, Jan 06, 2024, 11:19 PM UTC

TillE wrote: post #100

endisneigh wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is interesting that a forum filled with a disproportionate amount of techies still fall for such biases

Technical ability and knowledge just doesn't correlate with critical thinking at all. At worst, it makes you more likely to fall into that common trap of believing you're "smart" and therefore know everything about everything.

I would say it does correlate with some type of critical thinking, but not the one related to social/cultural/philosophical issues. What I say might seem strange at first, because critical thinking is presented as some kind of super-universal skill that you can freely apply to anything but in fact it's not. Kinda like one would think that a good singer would automatically make a good dancer because of being able to feel the rhythm etc. but in reality the correlation is not as strong as one would expect.

Re: Studies suggest that relying on will power to break habits is hopeless (2019)

#114

Post by dylan604 » Sat, Jan 06, 2024, 11:19 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #84

andrewstuart wrote: post #54

Someone explained to me that the subconscious mind does not like giving up something that it likes in exchange for nothing. Say for example you want to give up smoking. So don't give up. Instead, just stop that behavior for the present time - then your subconscious is not fighting you. So you want a cigarette? Well sure OK you can have one, but defer that decision to have it for some period of time. Maybe start with…

Didn't Mark Twain say "I don't know what all the fuss is about quitting smoking. I must have done it a hundred times"

I've also heard "I quit smoking at the end of every cigarette"

Re: Studies suggest that relying on will power to break habits is hopeless (2019)

#115

Post by broscillator » Sat, Jan 06, 2024, 11:19 PM UTC

proc0 wrote: post #2

> Wood ends her book with advice for those of us who have become hostages to our smartphones. She offers a stepwise strategy. First, recognize your dependency, and acknowledge how the habit disrupts work, social interactions, and safe driving. Next, “control the context cues,” meaning identify what triggers you to grab the phone That still requires will power. It could probably be reduced to intention, and not so muc…

It does, but the will power is aimed at doing a bunch of preparatory small things.

It is an important distinction. Let me paint an example:

You need to move a huge boulder, but someone tells you that boulder is too big, you're not strong enough to push it. And they're right. But you go and you grab a lever, you use a tool, and you move the boulder.

You did technically utilize your strength, but the take away of the deed, the key component, isn't how much strength you utilized, rather that you admitted that your body's strength isn't enough and utilized a tool.

Re: Studies suggest that relying on will power to break habits is hopeless (2019)

#116

Post by wcarron » Sat, Jan 06, 2024, 11:21 PM UTC

pi-e-sigma wrote: post #101

wruza wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a commonly observable post-willpower attitude. Unfortunately it doesn’t help those for whom it didn’t work. It’s like saying get up and live to a depressed one. Saying that as a guy who punched evolving clinical depression in her face without medications with character-intrinsic anger. The problem with that approach is that not everyone has anger as a reaction so default that it still remains in a depressed s…

Also, people claiming such wins and calling others weak for not doing the same come across as a bit... not self-aware? If your will power is so great why did you end up with these bad addictions in the first place?

Doesn't matter how you or I got wherever. What matters is seeing where you are, where you want to be, and doing what it takes to get there. You're correct in that I was at that time, 100% a weak lecherous person. A slave to my desires for chemical escapism and pleasure. I chose, eventually, not to be ruled by them. Anyone and everyone can. It's not a moral failure to slip up. It's not a moral failure to say "I choose and desire to use nicotine or watch porn or [insert "vice" here] without reservation.", either. The moral failure is the rejection or abdication of the responsiblity for your actions.

Re: Studies suggest that relying on will power to break habits is hopeless (2019)

#117

Post by nozzlegear » Sat, Jan 06, 2024, 11:22 PM UTC

hinkley wrote: post #42

quickthrower2 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even replacing the cookie with 100g strawberries and 100g yoghurt goes a long way. And why is that cookie there? Shop on a full stomach. Take a list.

If I didn’t keep a bowl of fresh fruit and fancy teas in the house I’d be having some very uncomfortable conversations about diabetes with my doctor right about now.

What kinds of teas do you like? I dropped my soda habit a long time ago, but I seem to have replaced it with a habit for those dragonfruit juice drinks from Starbucks. I’m trying to get away from that and just make tea at home.

Re: Studies suggest that relying on will power to break habits is hopeless (2019)

#118

Post by k8svet » Sat, Jan 06, 2024, 11:22 PM UTC

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #88

k8svet wrote: post #53

I really like this thread. Thanks to those for sharing their own processes and tricks. It's fascinating the ways people trick themselves into will power. Cool stuff, potentially life changing. I wrote and deleted mine a few times. Will power is weird and I've found weird ways of enabling some in myself. And then some I can't explain. I've been destroying my fingers for literally 30 years and about a month ago I decid…

I've chewed my fingernails for pretty much my whole life. In 2004, before my 2nd marriage, I manage to resolve to grow them out for the wedding. I succeeded, but a couple of months later they were all gone again. This spring I cycled from Santa Fe to Seattle (18 days). Pretty hard to chew your nails while they are down the handlebars all day. It was the first time in 20 years, and only the 2nd time in my life, that I…

> although it's a ton of work to keep them in shape (which is what prevents me from chewing - I would never chew a perfectly good nail, only a damaged one).

yes, this 100%. Often when I notice myself picking, and then notice myself doing it again 30 seconds later, I just take a moment to admire them. Find a spot I can file a bit. Put cuticle lotion oil, put lotion on, pat myself on the back. And then it usually passes and is fine.

A friend and I were also discussing skin picking, related to finger picking, and related to OCD. And it's a similar thing. Something is off and needs correcting. Something is crusty or flakey or hard, and it's satisfying to scratch the itch. That's actually another, I've stopped tearing a new hole in my body when a mosquito bites me. Some sort of mindfulness allowing me to catch myself. Reminds me of the AHA! moments in therapy where I started to work forward/backwards through a problem and identify where + how to be more mindful and in control of my emotions.

And yes, there's countless tiny benefits to real fingernails, and pitfalls! I've scratched and cut myself in some unfortunate places.

Re: Studies suggest that relying on will power to break habits is hopeless (2019)

#119

Post by notnaut » Sat, Jan 06, 2024, 11:23 PM UTC

endisneigh wrote: post #96

ceejayoz wrote: post #83

These threads always bring out a whole bunch of people who confuse confirmation bias with population-level statistics. If you kicked a heroin habit, good for you! Societally we still can’t use “suck it up you pansies” as a drug rehab strategy just on your say-so.

It is interesting that a forum filled with a disproportionate amount of techies still fall for such biases

I only recently started working with SWE type folk in the last few years and while they are, on average, the smartest people I have ever met, they’re also some of the least well-rounded and most siloed minds I’ve ever encountered.

Re: Studies suggest that relying on will power to break habits is hopeless (2019)

#120

Post by burnerburnson » Sat, Jan 06, 2024, 11:23 PM UTC

SilasX wrote: post #45

Boogie_Man wrote: post #32

Quitting things for me personally requires tricking my base lizard brain. I recall an Onion News video with a parody PSA: "Smoking is Gay". You have to use the smart guy you to outsmart the dumb guy you. Set traps for him. Anticipate his moves and crush him.

Haha I remember seeing that and thinking … hm, that … would probably be more successful than most of their PSAs. https://www.theonion.com/new-anti-smoking-ads-warn-teens-its...

The onion made me watch an unskippable ad before I could watch the video, and then started another ad 30s into the video. Incredible. No wonder they're irrelevant now.