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Generation Junk

walterkirn.substack.com

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Re: Generation Junk

#111

Post by csours »

There's a lot to say on this topic: "All engineering is value engineering, it just depends whose value you're talking about"; "The affordable 'tools' you can buy in a regular store are just toys for the home gamer. Real tools that make money, cost money".

But I won't mention those. Instead an observation about "They don't make them like they used to" as it pertains to automobiles. I work for an automobile manufacturer (anything stated here is solely my own opinion and experience). For a good long time, cars HAD to be worked on every so often. Carbs get fouled up, valves wear down and need adjusting, ignition system timing drifts - so people learned how to work on their cars. The things they had to fix were relatively simple and observable. Then the 70's and 80's happened, and about 4 big things changed in short order: Insurance went up for high horsepower cars, The Gas Crisis made the big old boats unaffordable, Smog regulations went into effect, more safety systems got added.

Unfortunately this meant: People missed the power and torque of the huge old engines. Smog compliance added a lot of gizmos and computers. And the safety stuff made cars safer, but sometimes people died anyway, and sometimes the safety systems were part of the cause (this is more complicated than I'm willing to write about in this brief comment).

And you can't adjust a fuel injected car like you can a carb, even if it's not running right. You can't adjust the points or the dynamo or the distributor with electronic ignition. Lot of stuff got much harder to access, because midsize and compact cars just don't have the real estate that the old boats had.

So lots of folks started saying "They don't make them like they used to" - because you had a lot of new problems, and lost a lot of things you were used to. You still had to fix the problems, but your old diagnostics and understanding didn't go very far - you had to talk to a computer and it didn't talk very well. You still had to work on it, because some of the old stuff broke, and some new stuff broke; but you couldn't work on it. So it felt like it was just crap.

Companies started using cheaper processes to get the painting done faster. They used plastic instead of metal, and thinner metal to save weight and improve gas mileage, and it all sucked.

But slowly they improved the grade of plastic they used, made the computers smarter, really dialed in the engineering standards for components, and ever so slowly people stopped saying "They don't make them like they used to", because nowadays you can get the same horsepower in a tiny 10 year old compact hatchback that you used to get in a souped-up Mustang or Camaro, and with better gas mileage and safety.

It's just that now we can also complain about the Bluetooth and touchscreens not working.

They sure don't make them like they used to, eh?

Re: Generation Junk

#112

Post by jonahss »

CrazyStat wrote: post #98
jonahss wrote: post #49

Ok no. First of all: survivorship bias. All of the old appliances that still work are only the ones which still work. This goes for the author's juicer. Second: things which have investment attention now are excellent quality and things which are waning towards the end of their lifecycle are having the last few corners cut before the Private Equity firm that now owns them throws in the towel, throughly wrung dry. Aut…

> pens - same as staples. I focused in on pens as I was reading the piece because I'm something of a pen snob, something I realized when I was at a job fair one day in college and I had a brief feeling of aversion when a recruiter offered me a shitty free pen. It's not hard to get good pens, and they're not particularly expensive. $1-2/pen will get you very solid ball-point pens that write smoothly and reliably. Some…

I agree. I feel like the author is upset at pens given out at banks and restaurants to sign stuff. As cheap as possible, Minimum Viable Pen for sure.

I buy a few packs of my favorite uniball pens every year and sprinkle them around the house and in all my bags. Very happy with them.

Re: Generation Junk

#113

Post by fsckboy »

jonahss wrote: post #56
fritzo wrote: post #29

Author neglects selection bias: antiques that stopped working after 1 or 5 or 10 years have been in landfills for a long time. My grandfather (1922-2006) opined: "Some folks say things aren't made like they used to be. But I remember those junky old cars that would break down every 50 or 100 miles. I remember that unreliable crap. I'd far rather have a modern car, even if I can't fix it." (He was more of a carpenter…

I listened to a bunch of Car Talk episodes from the 80s and early 90s and holy cow, those cars were all breaking down constantly!

you were listening to people calling two mechanics with their car troubles... selection bias much? if you did a radio talk show with two Tesla mechanics today, out of the tiny population of people who listen to radio, you'd find a stream of Tesla owners who were having problems.

Also, btw, Tom and Ray did always always always point out that repairing was cheaper than replacing. Most repairs are pennies. (thousands and thousands of pennies)

Re: Generation Junk

#114

Post by paleface »

WrongAssumption wrote: post #102
paleface wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern retail toasters, don’t seem to be able to fit a proper standard English sized, slice of bread - the size of which, I’m not convinced has increased over time - but rather, the toasters have been designed primarily with US sized slices (which I’m under the possibly erroneous impression, are smaller?!), as the target market. Quite annoying…

Dualit is a quality hand built toaster made in the UK since the 1950s.

Yeah, I know - I actually mentioned it in another comment here.

Even with Dualit, I would still only purchase from a professional catering retailer. Just in case, there’s any differences, and the fact that purchasing from a professional catering retailer, implies a greater level of longevity, if it ever did breakdown - for potential small claims court, reasons, in the future.

Regardless, Dualit also pretty much make every part of their toasters replaceable, for this exact reason. Hence why I think it’s one of the only decent toasters, out there!

Re: Generation Junk

#115

Post by samstave »

jonahss wrote: post #56
fritzo wrote: post #29

Author neglects selection bias: antiques that stopped working after 1 or 5 or 10 years have been in landfills for a long time. My grandfather (1922-2006) opined: "Some folks say things aren't made like they used to be. But I remember those junky old cars that would break down every 50 or 100 miles. I remember that unreliable crap. I'd far rather have a modern car, even if I can't fix it." (He was more of a carpenter…

I listened to a bunch of Car Talk episodes from the 80s and early 90s and holy cow, those cars were all breaking down constantly!

That guy was just tryin' ta get his dipstick wet. I tell ya, I havent had a wet dipstick since the carburator went bad on my 72 gremlin.

(If you ever listened to Car Talk - you can hear it)

Re: Generation Junk

#116

Post by robocat »

jonahss wrote: post #67
naravara wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly if you could plonk down a ton of money for a reliable appliance that’d be great but that’s usually not what money buys you now. Spending more usually results in fancier styling, nicer materials if you’re lucky, and a bunch of unnecessary technological frippery that ends up making the thing less reliable, not more. That’s the real problem is that the luxury tier of so many markets has thoroughly enshittified.…

the Miele vacuums are incredible. If you want appliances that last, buy the commercial ones. Hobart makes an under counter dishwasher that you can bet will never wear out and can be repaired. Shell out for an industrial washing machine like they have at the laundromats. Those things are made to run all day for years. If they break down, they're repairable.

My Miele dishwasher has totally failed less than 5 years old. Not worth the expensive price. Probably fixable but requires a multi-hundred-$ relay. I haven't fixed it because of my time cost (such a hassle).

Previously bought a much cheaper dishwasher for my previous house that is still going strong. I found a geeky person on the sales floor that dealt with dishwasher returns and asked his advice for buying a reliable one: his advice seems to have been solid. I recommend trying this approach.

Unfortunately we can no longer trust brand names. Most previously trustworthy brands have turned to shit. I now mostly aim for mediocrity because that seems to be the sweet spot (cheap is usually trash, expensive usually is poor value for money).

It is very difficult to make good decisions for most purchases - requiring too much effort and brainspace. I never want to learn the details of appliances but I am given little choice.

The other problem is that the UX/UI of many modern devices has gone to complete shit. Searching for a usable appliance is a nightmare.

Re: Generation Junk

#117

Post by lawgimenez »

edrxty wrote: post #88
woopwoop wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were simpler and easier to repair, but they absolutely did not last longer.

On average they didn't (oh no, that repair costs more than the "car is worth" as if that's a metric that actually means anything) but it was far easier to keep one running indefinitely. You could take an engine to a small machine shop and get the head and block resurfaced, valves reamed and cylinders lapped. Without any electronics to fail it was just a block of metal that was slowly losing material and a quick hit w…

As someone who drives an “old” Honda 2006, I’m surprised that this machine is still running very good. I could just take it to my local shop and had it fixed in 1-2 days. Based on my logs, I took the car for repair on average of 3-4 times a year.

I am looking to purchase a new family vehicle in the future but with all the softwares, screens, and fancy stuffs I am not sure if I liked it. Anyone feels this way?

Re: Generation Junk

#118

Post by samstave »

fsckboy wrote: post #113
jonahss wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I listened to a bunch of Car Talk episodes from the 80s and early 90s and holy cow, those cars were all breaking down constantly!

you were listening to people calling two mechanics with their car troubles... selection bias much? if you did a radio talk show with two Tesla mechanics today, out of the tiny population of people who listen to radio, you'd find a stream of Tesla owners who were having problems. Also, btw, Tom and Ray did always always always point out that repairing was cheaper than replacing. Most repairs are pennies. (thousands an…

Yeah... but I hated these guys when I was younger.

Then I got to the point where I knew I was old... kicking the tires on the mini-van saying "shes a 'beaut"

But name a single other car anything talkshow that you can even name or even recall vaguely even if you cant recall what it was named?

So - like mycelium, ideas spread much further that you think they may have before the internet.

(so did STDs, if you catch my...)

Re: Generation Junk

#119

Post by spzb »

woopwoop wrote: post #12

So this article implies that a number of things that we buy previously were built to last longer, and indeed did last longer. The first few examples are kitchen appliances. In this case I don't really know, but I'm at least willing to listen. Ultimately the evidence is people responding to a thread on Twitter where he solicited complaints. Not so compelling. But then he mentions a "hybrid sedan". Here I'm aware of th…

There's also a survival bias in that we don't consider the appliances from yesteryear that packed up back when disco was king.

Re: Generation Junk

#120

Post by xtracto »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #21
drcode wrote: post #4

I feel arguments like this always ignore the fact that buying a toaster in 1950 was a major investment for a family, and if you want to spend $2000 on a high-end toaster in 2023, which is probably equivalent in inflation-adjusted price to the 1950s toaster, it will probably also be very nice.

A lot of the high end stuff is crap too. You get a toaster with wifi and a touch screen and an app instead of something that works.

The other day I was telling my wife that the next blender I'll get will be a "fuck you" blender.

That's the name I gave to an old blender I had 25 years ago when I lived on my own while studying. The blender was an Oster brand and only had an on/off switch. I sold it to a friend when I left that city.

Fast forward 25 years, my friend told me that his mom is still using the same blender. No programs, no memories, no modes. Just Off and "fuck you" mode haha.

Now I also want a toaster with similar properties. Just let me put my bread slices, click a button and give me my good sliced bread. That's all I need. And hopefully that simplicity makes the gizmo last 20+ years.

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