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Why Prusa is floundering, and how you can avoid their fate

drewdevault.com

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Re: Why Prusa is floundering, and how you can avoid their fate

#111

Post by em-bee »

riddley wrote: post #61
em-bee wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

for entry level, eg someone buying a 3D printer for the first time, absolutely

But the author isn't saying (only) "Prusa is losing the ultra-beginner market." That's moving the goal posts. The author is making sweeping claims beyond just that market, right? When you're in the market for a new TV or phone or whatever, do you buy the absolute cheapest one you can find and then decry the other players in the market because their stuff is clearly low value because the ICO is higher? Maybe you do, t…

ok, fair. i wasn't adressing the whole range, but merely pointing out that there is a subset of consumers who will only consider the initial price.

myself i do that for any product that i am not familiar with unless the running costs are evident. (so i'd buy a more expensive car that uses less gas, if i were in the market for a car) for someone new to 3D printers, running costs are not evident because i don't even know how much i'll use that thing.

TVs are an odd example because they don't have any running costs beyond how long they live before they break down, but even the cheapest lives long enough to make a more expensive one not worth it unless it has better specs that i care about.

Re: Why Prusa is floundering, and how you can avoid their fate

#112

Post by cmsj »

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #93
cmsj wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To provide some more commentary here. Prusa has not changed it's behaviour towards either PrusaSlicer or its printer firmwares in the time since Bambu has existed as a force in the 3D printing community, so Armin's claim that Bambu is making companies reconsider open source, is not at all substantiated. Furthermore, the Bambu A1 is clearly positioned against the Prusa Mini - they're priced the same, have the same gan…

> Armin's claim that Bambu is making companies reconsider open source, is not at all substantiated I cannot say what is or is not making companies reconsider, but Prusa is on the record about their struggles: https://blog.prusa3d.com/the-state-of-open-source-in-3d-prin...

In which they clearly articulate that they are not reconsidering open source:

  * We stand by our roots in open-source and will continue to do so.
  * Our desktop 3D printers will always be open source. We intend to continue publishing plastic parts, along with firmware source codes.
  * We will stay open to third-party component manufacturers, accessories, add-ons, and unofficial upgrades.
  * PrusaSlicer will always be open source.
  * Our investment in PrusaSlicer and firmware development will continue at the same or higher level.

Re: Why Prusa is floundering, and how you can avoid their fate

#113

Post by cmsj »

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #90
cmsj wrote: post #46

I have a lot of respect for Armin, but it's pretty clear he doesn't really understand the specifics of what he's talking about here. > people are complaining (The MK4 firmware is not Open Source) the link here is to a reddit post ( https://www.reddit.com/r/prusa3d/comments/10g6fgv/prusa_givi... ) in which the complaint is not only not about the MK4's firmware, it's also not even about something not being open source.…

Thanks for the heads up, I have corrected the incorrect statement that the MK4 firmware is not open source. My post is primarily about the tensions of running an open source business and Prusa is on the record of expressing similar challenges. What the present state of firmware is, is not really all that relevant to what I wrote. > but it's pretty clear he doesn't really understand the specifics of what he's talking…

I think it does need saying though, because you're laying out foundations that don't support the arguments above them.

(e.g. the Bambu A1 is not positioned against the Mk4 like your post says - it's positioned against the identically priced Prusa Mini)

Re: Why Prusa is floundering, and how you can avoid their fate

#114

Post by the_mitsuhiko »

cmsj wrote: post #112
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Armin's claim that Bambu is making companies reconsider open source, is not at all substantiated I cannot say what is or is not making companies reconsider, but Prusa is on the record about their struggles: https://blog.prusa3d.com/the-state-of-open-source-in-3d-prin...

In which they clearly articulate that they are not reconsidering open source: * We stand by our roots in open-source and will continue to do so. * Our desktop 3D printers will always be open source. We intend to continue publishing plastic parts, along with firmware source codes. * We will stay open to third-party component manufacturers, accessories, add-ons, and unofficial upgrades. * PrusaSlicer will always be ope…

Did you read the section about a new license they are considering? The second bullet point is in violation of the OSI open source definition.

Re: Why Prusa is floundering, and how you can avoid their fate

#115

Post by the_mitsuhiko »

cmsj wrote: post #113
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the heads up, I have corrected the incorrect statement that the MK4 firmware is not open source. My post is primarily about the tensions of running an open source business and Prusa is on the record of expressing similar challenges. What the present state of firmware is, is not really all that relevant to what I wrote. > but it's pretty clear he doesn't really understand the specifics of what he's talking…

I think it does need saying though, because you're laying out foundations that don't support the arguments above them. (e.g. the Bambu A1 is not positioned against the Mk4 like your post says - it's positioned against the identically priced Prusa Mini)

> the Bambu A1 is not positioned against the Mk4 like your post says - it's positioned against the identically priced Prusa Mini

Is it? Why would the A1 be positioned against the mini? It has the same bed size as the MK4. If anything the internet suggests it’s very much competing against the MK3 and MK4. So do YouTube videos reviewing it.

Re: Why Prusa is floundering, and how you can avoid their fate

#116

Post by cmsj »

commandar wrote: post #65
cmsj wrote: post #46

I have a lot of respect for Armin, but it's pretty clear he doesn't really understand the specifics of what he's talking about here. > people are complaining (The MK4 firmware is not Open Source) the link here is to a reddit post ( https://www.reddit.com/r/prusa3d/comments/10g6fgv/prusa_givi... ) in which the complaint is not only not about the MK4's firmware, it's also not even about something not being open source.…

I think what he's actually misinterpreted are complaints that the Mk4 controller board isn't open source. Prusa has long bragged about their hardware being open source and they've made an about face on that over the last couple of years.

And that is a fair complaint to make, since that is a change for Prusa, but that is not what was claimed by OP, Armin or the Reddit post linked to.

Re: Why Prusa is floundering, and how you can avoid their fate

#117

Post by cmsj »

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #115
cmsj wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it does need saying though, because you're laying out foundations that don't support the arguments above them. (e.g. the Bambu A1 is not positioned against the Mk4 like your post says - it's positioned against the identically priced Prusa Mini)

> the Bambu A1 is not positioned against the Mk4 like your post says - it's positioned against the identically priced Prusa Mini Is it? Why would the A1 be positioned against the mini? It has the same bed size as the MK4. If anything the internet suggests it’s very much competing against the MK3 and MK4. So do YouTube videos reviewing it.

Ok that part is my mistake, I mixed the A1 with the A1 Mini in my head.

Re: Why Prusa is floundering, and how you can avoid their fate

#118

Post by cmsj »

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #114
cmsj wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In which they clearly articulate that they are not reconsidering open source: * We stand by our roots in open-source and will continue to do so. * Our desktop 3D printers will always be open source. We intend to continue publishing plastic parts, along with firmware source codes. * We will stay open to third-party component manufacturers, accessories, add-ons, and unofficial upgrades. * PrusaSlicer will always be ope…

Did you read the section about a new license they are considering? The second bullet point is in violation of the OSI open source definition.

I did, and I agree. I was commenting about the software/firmware because that's what seemed to be under discussion in OP's and your post. Now it seems like actually maybe the whole thing was about the controller board designs?

Re: Why Prusa is floundering, and how you can avoid their fate

#119

Post by the_mitsuhiko »

cmsj wrote: post #118
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read the section about a new license they are considering? The second bullet point is in violation of the OSI open source definition.

I did, and I agree. I was commenting about the software/firmware because that's what seemed to be under discussion in OP's and your post. Now it seems like actually maybe the whole thing was about the controller board designs?

It’s about the challenges of open source companies and that some (us included) are rattling on some of the OSI foundations.

Re: Why Prusa is floundering, and how you can avoid their fate

#120

Post by jacquesm »

maximus-decimus wrote: post #36
MarkusQ wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then what's the point? It would take effort to develop these "features", the only benefit of which would be predatory. For example: > Bambu’s cloud slicer is a massive lost opportunity for Prusa. Bambu's cloud slicer is a complicated SaaS undertaking that incurs hosting and storage costs, yet doesn't (so far as I know) generate any revenue for Bambu Labs. So why do it, unless you want to make sure that a copy of what…

Some people want to be able to launch a print job from a remote location e.g. their living room with their 3d printers being in a workshop. Personally, I think that's a fire hazard, but I've definitely seen youtubers liking that feature.

For 3D printers that's a manageable risk, for laser cutters I would highly recommend against unattended operation. They're fire starters first and laser cutters second, treat them as such.
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