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3M knew its chemicals were harmful decades ago, but didn't tell the public

minnesotareformer.com

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Re: 3M knew its chemicals were harmful decades ago, but didn't tell the public

#111
post #92
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, the death penalty contains traces of mercy and life-long incarceration does not. You take away someone’s freedom for the rest of their life instead of putting them out of their misery.

TBH I'm not much interested in `Punishment`, so long incarceration does not interest me personally.

You suggest vile acts should be permitted without consequence?

Re: 3M knew its chemicals were harmful decades ago, but didn't tell the public

#112
How much of the rise in cancer cases over the past 100 years can be traced back specifically to PFCs? What other harms can chronic low-dose exposure cause?

We need some proper unbiased studies of the long term chronic effects of PFCs, paid for by the EPA or some other branch of the US federal government, without any influence from environmental groups or chemical manufacturing companies.

Re: 3M knew its chemicals were harmful decades ago, but didn't tell the public

#113
post #5

I increasingly think we need personal criminal liability for everyone in the management chain before this will end. As long as you can cash out your options before the reckoning, maybe even spin a division out to go bankrupt, there are just too many people who’ll chase the larger number. You need the guy who gets that internal memo to think that if he doesn’t report it to the EPA, he’ll spend the rest of his life won…

Investors as well.

How would investors know if something is kept secret?

Re: 3M knew its chemicals were harmful decades ago, but didn't tell the public

#114
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Feels weird to get into a high-school debate about capital punishment here, but in essence: (a) Sometimes the wrong people get convicted. In this context, irreversible punishments suck. (b) “We’re going to kill you because killing people is wrong” is a weird look.

Killing innocent people is wrong, killing murderers is good. Therefore we should give accused murderers fair trials before executing them.

> Therefore we should give accused murderers fair trials before executing them.

There are many examples of accused murderers who received fair trials, were convicted, and yet were still innocent.

Re: 3M knew its chemicals were harmful decades ago, but didn't tell the public

#115
post #83
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a gift to short sellers.

Wouldn’t this reduce the share price, effectively baking in the externality risk?

It would reduce the share price of companies that shareholders thought were at high risk of committing a major crime, and create an incentive for companies that care about their share price to make it very clear that they weren't going to do crime and e.g. have policies to prevent it.

Re: 3M knew its chemicals were harmful decades ago, but didn't tell the public

#116

This is a completely disingenuous take on the case. There isn't a single explanation of how its dangerous only thats its found in many different species and claims its toxic. If this shallow type of analysis is enough for otherwise technical people on this forum then we have a much bigger problem than 3M.

People really want to believe these companies are Disney super villains. No evidence required. And no accounting for all the benefits that derive from these chemicals. Americans are really bad at risk assessment and toxicology. I suspect it will be our ultimate undoing when the Chinese come along with superior weapons that withstand higher heat thresholds or less corrosion.

Re: 3M knew its chemicals were harmful decades ago, but didn't tell the public

#117
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Government acquisition, divestiture, and all IP entering the public domain? Or even just forcing them to break up into more, smaller companies.

you live in a capitalist society not some socialist nightmare. Giving it to the government would be much much much worse.

They didn’t say to let the government run it. Make the patents/trade secrets public domain and sell off the physical assets in open auctions. Someone would buy up the profitable manufacturing lines that aren’t known to be as harmful.

Re: 3M knew its chemicals were harmful decades ago, but didn't tell the public

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In China, there was a case of baby formula execs (Edit: pointed out to me further down thread that the execs were only jailed for 5-15 years with Sanlu's general manager receiving a life sentence, and the people executed very those directly responsible for tainting the product mentioned) knowingly selling product that was harmful and led to tens of thousands of hospitalizations and a handful of deaths. They were exec…

Death sentence is probably a bit much, but if management takes actions that they know will kill or maim I don't see a reason why punishment shouldn't be the same as if you went out and hit someone with a hammer. In this case, force 3M to pay for everything, if they refuse or can't the government sells of the company to pay for the cost. I'm not a fan of the death sentence, but I have no problem killing of evil compan…

You can't "sell the company". Any company you sell with an immediate and complete change of management is very likely completely dead in the water. Institutional knowledge is very important.
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