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Could we stop Yellowstone from erupting with a geothermal power plant?

construction-physics.com

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Re: Could we stop Yellowstone from erupting with a geothermal power plant?

#111

Post by hollerith »

AdamN wrote: post #79
ben_w wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only does it already exist, it's cheap enough that Kenya has some and wants more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geothermal_power_in_Kenya Judging by the price tag of 9.1 Ksh/kWh listed on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_Kenya (and looking up historical exchange rates because of the date of the link and their persistent inflation), that's about 0.085-0.090 USD/kWh.

iirc it works well in Kenya because the thermal gradient is really steep and the heat is right near the surface. I don't think that's common around the world. Local expenses (labor, etc...) are also cheaper than in many parts of the world. Geothermal is however one of the electricity sources with the fewest negative externalities so definitely should be pursued where possible.

Extract enough heat from Earth and Earth loses its magnetic field and then its atmosphere and oceans (from the effects of the solar wind) which sounds like a negative externality to me.

Re: Could we stop Yellowstone from erupting with a geothermal power plant?

#112

Post by mminer237 »

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #103
dwighttk wrote: post #96

Would pulling that much heat out of the ground help or hurt global warming?

Surely it would have to increase global warming unless there were effects such as a nuclear winter caused by a sudden uncontrolled release of the heat. If you consider that that heat is stored underground where it doesn't affect weather patterns, then moving it to the surface is bound to involve the use of energy to move it and that energy will contribute to global warming as well as the heat released by the whole pr…

My understanding is that it can't really affect it. To the extent we extract heat beyond what the greenhouse effect can warm the earth to, it will radiate out into space. The only real way to heat up the planet long-term is to prevent heat from radiating out by increasing greenhouse gasses.

Re: Could we stop Yellowstone from erupting with a geothermal power plant?

#113

Post by mercutio2 »

corethree wrote: post #100
fragmede wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How exactly do you "finish the Bart"? It's not a perfect system, but there are stations and trains and they run and people (including me) use it to get around.

The goal is to ring it around the bay. They've been failing to do this for decades. You'll probably be dead before they finish that.

That hasn’t actually been a goal for 50 years. That was a “maybe if this is really successful we’ll do it” vision in the early days of BART planning.

Extend to downtown San Jose? Maybe a goal for 20 years from now. Add additional transbay tubes? Sure, if the tooth fairy pays for it. The electorate emphatically does not want to pay for more BART, much as I’d like it to be otherwise.

Re: Could we stop Yellowstone from erupting with a geothermal power plant?

#114

Post by jesse9766 »

hollerith wrote: post #111
AdamN wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iirc it works well in Kenya because the thermal gradient is really steep and the heat is right near the surface. I don't think that's common around the world. Local expenses (labor, etc...) are also cheaper than in many parts of the world. Geothermal is however one of the electricity sources with the fewest negative externalities so definitely should be pursued where possible.

Extract enough heat from Earth and Earth loses its magnetic field and then its atmosphere and oceans (from the effects of the solar wind) which sounds like a negative externality to me.

We'll (and humanity itself) be long dead by then

Re: Could we stop Yellowstone from erupting with a geothermal power plant?

#115

Post by danbruc »

suzzer99 wrote: post #47
roenxi wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those numbers aren't that large. They aren't small in anyone's estimation, but the Empire State Building is a lot less than the amount of material a motivated earthmoving company can get through in a year. There'd be some interesting technical challenges tearing down Everest, but it is conceivable. The part that requires creative thinking is why it would be worth it spending that much money.

To build the Panama Canal, excavators removed enough spoil to fill a city block 19 miles high.

1800 Panama Canals still sound like quite a lot of work.

Re: Could we stop Yellowstone from erupting with a geothermal power plant?

#117

Post by Auracle »

gambiting wrote: post #76
hutzlibu wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends. Because transmission lines usually cross over private property. And that can get very, very complicated. (Unless of course you are a fan of the chinese modell and want to implement that - but even they fear people revolting over unpopular big decisions)

Does US not have compulsory purchase process for infrastructure projects? Here in UK if there is a need to run transmision lines or whatever, the government will just compulsory purchase the land needed, you will be paid the market price for the land but you have to sell it.

Sure

From experience they try to pay far below market rate, so then people challenge it (possibly in court?). This delays things, adds expense, etc.

Re: Could we stop Yellowstone from erupting with a geothermal power plant?

#118

Post by arwineap »

iwontberude wrote: post #65
vlovich123 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to https://www.eia.gov/electricity/state/archive/2021/ the average retail price for California was 20..

sounds great but anyone living downtown is paying over $0.50/kWh

Downtown where?

LADWP switched to time of use scheduling, so my rates are anywhere from 0.16/kwh to 0.21/kwh ( https://www.ladwp.com/ladwp/faces/ladwp/residential/r-custom... )

SCE is a little more expensive with their tiered plans ranging from 0.32/kwh to 0.42/kwh

For context, downtown LA should be all on LADWP

Re: Could we stop Yellowstone from erupting with a geothermal power plant?

#120

Post by littlestymaar »

easytiger wrote: post #67
littlestymaar wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that eruptions are primarily driven by the ejection of gas , the “earth popping like a balloon” analogy is more apt than you think it is (even if it's not exactly like that, and more like opening a shaken bottle of Champaign after you won the Grand Prix).

Are they "primarily driven by the ejection of gas" or more accurately preceded by gas and steam as the magma itself is gas rich and thermo and fluid dynamics dictate the gas will be at the vanguard of the breach?

The magma, like Champaign, is indeed gas rich, and when the pressure lowers, the gas is released and wants to go away, carrying lots of material with it, be it Champaign, rock or lava, that's how you get the projections (the eruption per se)
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