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New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan

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Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan

#111

Post by avbanks »

mikewarot wrote: post #97

It seems to me that NYC has really decided they want to collapse and aren't imploding fast enough. There is no sane reason to deliberately devalue an urban core like this . They already face property tax collapse due to an occupancy crisis. It'll be like Gary, Indiana (just east of me) before you know it. If they want to encourage use of mass transit, they should to address that issue directly, rather than this self-…

This will actually make living here more attractive. Most people who actually live in the city do not drive, we take public transportation. I don't want to sound condescending but we'd prefer our city to be catered to people who actually live here instead of people who are just visiting. Hopefully this will free up more space for pedestrian zones and bike lanes.

Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan

#112

Post by avbanks »

windows2020 wrote: post #100

"...$2.50 that will be charged to vehicles from ride-hailing platforms such as Uber..." One simple trick can save you $12.50. NYC is out of control with taxes and regulations, but... When I lived downtown, each morning, the glass of water on my nightstand would have a little oil slick of sorts atop it. When everything was shut down at the start of the pandemic, the constant stream of vehicles stopped. My water was th…

Why should we cater our city to people who don't live here?

Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan

#113

Post by varispeed »

avbanks wrote: post #109
varispeed wrote: post #46

Now that's some gaslighting there. Congestion as in there is too many poor entering the Manhattan, so they set the fee so only those who can afford $15 can enter. If it was about actual congestion then the fee would be proportional to one's affluence, otherwise the rich will just come in as if nothing was imposed.

I'm sorry but this isn't indicative of the reality of driving in NYC. If you drive into NYC, you will have to park. When you park you'll need to pay for a lot or a garage. Daily parking in NYC can cost $50-100, monthly subscriptions can easily run over $500. Even if the unlikely happens and you find a parking meter those are $10 an hour. Poor people aren't driving into NYC, they're commuting on trains like everyone e…

Not sure how this is relevant. There is a point where $100+$15 is too much and simply people can't afford more than that. So this is about pricing people out of coming in. It doesn't matter WHY they need to be there. If you have no money? GTFO.

Then if you say this has nothing to do with the poverty, then in that case, how is it going to reduce the congestion?

Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan

#114

Post by philip1209 »

xkekjrktllss wrote: post #70
philip1209 wrote: post #24

As a Manhattan resident, I’m excited. There should be at least one city in the USA built for people instead of cars. I understand it’s not for everybody, but 75% of the residential space in the county is only zoned for insipid, paved single-family home suburban hellscapes. Leave one city for people who want a European-style walkable city.

You must be joking. Since tyrant Robert Moses, NYC is undeniably built for cars. Maybe if anything had changed since then you would have a point, but the fact is American society is wholly incapable of even maintaining, much leas building, public infrastructure due to its demented obsession with privatization and profit, so NYC's transit system is a clusterfuck of rot and in no way something to be proud of.

Yes, but this is a move in the right direction.

Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan

#115

Post by philip1209 »

peruvian wrote: post #78
philip1209 wrote: post #24

As a Manhattan resident, I’m excited. There should be at least one city in the USA built for people instead of cars. I understand it’s not for everybody, but 75% of the residential space in the county is only zoned for insipid, paved single-family home suburban hellscapes. Leave one city for people who want a European-style walkable city.

NYC is very car centric. Just because you don't need a car to go see your friends or run errands doesn't change that. The streets are lined with cars, sometimes double parked, and collisions with pedestrians are plentiful.

This is a first step.

Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan

#116

Post by shipscode »

throw__away7391 wrote: post #48
gafage wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Low emission zones should be called instead "no poor people zones" which is what in practice they are.

You seem oblivious to the irony here—owning a car already puts you in the upper tier of wealth in the world. Talking about Manhattan specifically, this is already about the most expensive place in the world and the only place in the US with this scheme in place, adding more traffic isn’t going to change that so no point in using it as an example of anything. Plenty of countries that are not so car dependent have pede…

My buddy owns a car that cost $1000. That’s like 3 grocery trips.

Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan

#117

Post by avbanks »

varispeed wrote: post #113
avbanks wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry but this isn't indicative of the reality of driving in NYC. If you drive into NYC, you will have to park. When you park you'll need to pay for a lot or a garage. Daily parking in NYC can cost $50-100, monthly subscriptions can easily run over $500. Even if the unlikely happens and you find a parking meter those are $10 an hour. Poor people aren't driving into NYC, they're commuting on trains like everyone e…

Not sure how this is relevant. There is a point where $100+$15 is too much and simply people can't afford more than that. So this is about pricing people out of coming in. It doesn't matter WHY they need to be there. If you have no money? GTFO. Then if you say this has nothing to do with the poverty, then in that case, how is it going to reduce the congestion?

"Congestion as in there is too many poor entering the Manhattan, so they set the fee so only those who can afford $15 can enter."

You said that will adversely affect the poor but that's not true, what poor person is spending $100 a day on parking? Poor people use trains like nearly everyone else does. The extra $15 will discourage people from making unnecessary trips into the city thus reducing traffic/congestion and improving quality of life for people who live in the city.

For instance if someone live in Brooklyn and needs to make a trip to lower Manhattan they'll be more likely to use public transportation.

Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan

#118

Post by shipscode »

philip1209 wrote: post #114
xkekjrktllss wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must be joking. Since tyrant Robert Moses, NYC is undeniably built for cars. Maybe if anything had changed since then you would have a point, but the fact is American society is wholly incapable of even maintaining, much leas building, public infrastructure due to its demented obsession with privatization and profit, so NYC's transit system is a clusterfuck of rot and in no way something to be proud of.

Yes, but this is a move in the right direction.

Hijacking infrastructure (roads only for busses) seems like a weird way to reduce “congestion”

Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan

#119

Post by shipscode »

peruvian wrote: post #78
philip1209 wrote: post #24

As a Manhattan resident, I’m excited. There should be at least one city in the USA built for people instead of cars. I understand it’s not for everybody, but 75% of the residential space in the county is only zoned for insipid, paved single-family home suburban hellscapes. Leave one city for people who want a European-style walkable city.

NYC is very car centric. Just because you don't need a car to go see your friends or run errands doesn't change that. The streets are lined with cars, sometimes double parked, and collisions with pedestrians are plentiful.

It’s a driving city

Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan

#120

Post by shipscode »

avbanks wrote: post #109
varispeed wrote: post #46

Now that's some gaslighting there. Congestion as in there is too many poor entering the Manhattan, so they set the fee so only those who can afford $15 can enter. If it was about actual congestion then the fee would be proportional to one's affluence, otherwise the rich will just come in as if nothing was imposed.

I'm sorry but this isn't indicative of the reality of driving in NYC. If you drive into NYC, you will have to park. When you park you'll need to pay for a lot or a garage. Daily parking in NYC can cost $50-100, monthly subscriptions can easily run over $500. Even if the unlikely happens and you find a parking meter those are $10 an hour. Poor people aren't driving into NYC, they're commuting on trains like everyone e…

Poor people park on the street for free and work or own the local businesses. They open their shops around street parking hours near them.
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