A connection between after-hours work and decreased productivity • Hacker News Board

Re: A connection between after-hours work and decreased productivity

#111

Post by citrin_ru » Sat, Dec 09, 2023, 10:07 PM UTC

renegade-otter wrote: post #57

memling wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Notice how even if you are an early bird and in the office by 9, you are a lazy slacker when you leave at 5? Then someone rolls in at 11 and leaves at 7 - same number of hours. HARD WORKER. So I generally agree with your post, but is this what constitutes early riser these days? I get having kids and missing the key 7-9am time slot, but is an 11am start time a Usual Thing?

People regularly walk in from the street just in time for that 10:30 standup. Then it's 11, then they get ready for the day, then it's lunch time. Then it's lunch coma. Then by 3PM they start gaining speed. By that time, I am already exhausted.

People are different. I’m not a morning person and struggling through the first half of the day. Right after a lunch is when my most productive hours start.

Re: A connection between after-hours work and decreased productivity

#112

Post by grvdrm » Sat, Dec 09, 2023, 10:13 PM UTC

ishtanbul wrote: post #35

Investment banker here. The culture of software/tech better valuing work life balance is alluring. Whats described in the article is pretty alien to me. I typically have 4-6 hours of meetings a day (client calls) and am also expected to do 6+ hours of document/email work a day on top of that. I have to do somewhere between 2-10 hrs of work every weekend. It is impossible to keep up, so i am always disappointing someb…

I don’t see software/tech valuing work/life balance better. It might just be that software/tech is more remote and more flexible. But tech can punish you just like investment banking.

I was asked point blank by my tech CEO: “how much do you work” - first time in my career and that’s having come from NYC finance. Don’t believe the hype!

Re: A connection between after-hours work and decreased productivity

#113

Post by pavel_lishin » Sat, Dec 09, 2023, 10:42 PM UTC

ambrose2 wrote: post #108

pavel_lishin wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do. But they both cost money. My child is already enrolled in the after-school program, from 2:30 until 6:00.

How much do those cost these days compared to say, day care programs (per hour)?

I'm not sure. We pay a yearly rate, and it's significantly cheaper than it would be to pay per hour.

In any case, we already pay for the aftercare regardless of whether we're commuting to work that day or not; that's a cost that's already budgeted for.

Re: A connection between after-hours work and decreased productivity

#114

Post by pavel_lishin » Sat, Dec 09, 2023, 10:43 PM UTC

cozzyd wrote: post #106

pavel_lishin wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> make things easier for working parents. During the (now semi-aborted) back-to-office push at my employer, several of us pointed out that a 9-5 in the office is impossible for those of us with children and a commute. - 8:00am - earliest free drop-off time at school. - 8:12 or 8:20 - next bus or train to the city. I can probably make that from the school, if I fully sprint for at least half that journey. (Taking a ca…

well, sure if you live so far away that you spend 3 hours a day commuting... I would just work on the train and arrive late /leave early.

Sure, unless the mandated RTO plan explicitly states that you should be in the office from 9-5.

If I had to regularly spend 3 hours a day commuting, I would quit and find a job that doesn't do that shit to me.

Re: A connection between after-hours work and decreased productivity

#115

Post by Terr_ » Sat, Dec 09, 2023, 11:00 PM UTC

renegade-otter wrote: post #30

david-gpu wrote: post #17

The years when I was at my most productive, in terms of outputting the most value for my employer (products, patents, etc), I was doing about three hours of "focus work" a day on average. I simply didn't have the energy to do more than that. The rest of my working hours were spent in low-productivity meetings, low intensity emailing, etc. My performance reviews were consistently top-notch and I was getting promoted a…

Working smart vs working hard. Also - optics. Notice how even if you are an early bird and in the office by 9, you are a lazy slacker when you leave at 5? Then someone rolls in at 11 and leaves at 7 - same number of hours. HARD WORKER. People are shallow, visual, and have no attention spans (especially now). You need to be aware of the optics and play them. No, you are not gaming the system - you are getting to the e…

Odd, I always suspected it was the other way around, particularly when the management are themselves early-leavers.

Re: A connection between after-hours work and decreased productivity

#116

Post by chasd00 » Sun, Dec 10, 2023, 12:39 AM UTC

wildrhythms wrote: post #80

chasd00 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah 9am is not early at all and way more into running late territory. Early risers to me means focused and productive at 730AM local time. I’m usually ready to go full speed by 8AM, I wfh and kids are out the door to school by 7:35-7:40Am. /in the US and work in consulting

In every tech workplace I've been, 9am start time is the early risers, and 10:30-11am is when people actually 'are online'. Maybe it's different in the consulting space.

Hats off to anyone that effectively works part time for a full time salary but don’t mistake your management’s incompetence for business as usual.

Re: A connection between after-hours work and decreased productivity

#117

Post by Rhondalynn » Sun, Dec 10, 2023, 2:00 AM UTC

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Re: A connection between after-hours work and decreased productivity

#118

Post by em-bee » Sun, Dec 10, 2023, 2:28 AM UTC

lijok wrote: post #29

Working continuous overtime is one of the worst diseases you can inflict upon your company. 1. By making changes outside of work hours (comitting code as a software dev), you're upsetting your teammates understanding of the state of the project. Ever had on-call push a 200+ LOC change after hours to hot-fix a bug, then had to have a two hour meeting next morning to figure out what changed and how to re-do the fix pro…

i don't see how #1 is relevant. if you have code reviews, the problem simply goes away. if my work day ends at 6pm and you check in a change at 17:50, it is really better than had you made that check-in two hours later. i'll see it in the morning and deal with it as usual.

that on-call hotfix is a completely different problem that has nothing to do with people working overtime.

Re: A connection between after-hours work and decreased productivity

#119

Post by em-bee » Sun, Dec 10, 2023, 2:43 AM UTC

pavel_lishin wrote: post #68

mjirv wrote: post #27

> Three out of every four desk workers report working in the 3 to 6pm timeframe, but of those, only one in four consider these hours highly productive. It’s nice to see some data on this. A lot of people talk about a 4-day workweek, but personally I think a 6-hour work day would be better. At least in white-collar jobs, I think most people could fit the same amount of productivity into fewer (focused) hours. Plus a d…

> make things easier for working parents. During the (now semi-aborted) back-to-office push at my employer, several of us pointed out that a 9-5 in the office is impossible for those of us with children and a commute. - 8:00am - earliest free drop-off time at school. - 8:12 or 8:20 - next bus or train to the city. I can probably make that from the school, if I fully sprint for at least half that journey. (Taking a ca…

how did you do that before covid when working from home wasn't yet common?

i understand the problem for a single parent. in most countries they just can't work 8 hours a day. the time where kids are away for me for example is barely 8 hours by the clock. that is without commuting time and lunch break. once the kids come home someone needs to start preparing dinner, followed by housework.

with two parents however, one parent could work early, and the other could work late so that there is one parent around in the morning and one in the evening.

the trouble now is of course that this becomes a coordination problem with two different employers who have different expectations for the work schedule

Re: A connection between after-hours work and decreased productivity

#120

Post by Helmut10001 » Sun, Dec 10, 2023, 3:52 AM UTC

gjulianm wrote: post #31

Helmut10001 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fully agree. On my last job interview, I sat in front of the committee (about 7 to-be colleagues) and the director. I said: > I will only work maximum 30 hours a week. The reason is that I am not productive after 6 hours. It simply does not make sense for you to pay me after 2PM, because I will not do anything productive from 2 to 4PM and you are wasting money. Everyone smiled. Except the director. I still got the po…

To be honest, I don't know if I would have said that. I think that employees in "creative" positions (e.g., you're not serving customers at a bar and need to keep the shop open and working) are paid based on the output they produce. Whether that output is produced in 2, 6 or 8 hours is not really their problem. Looking at it this way, they would have happily paid you 100% of your salary for the same output you're now…

I work in academia and this was a tenure track position - these are quite rare and I have the feeling that only those will get these positions that can work 100% in 50% of time anyway (which accounts to 200% of work in a regular 40-hour job). I just wanted to make absolutely sure that I will have a limit of 6 hours a day and can take care of my body afterwards. Sitting 8 hours is just not doable anymore at close to 40, at least not for me.