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Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

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Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#111

Post by account42 »

freedomben wrote: post #92
justinclift wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ewww, why would anyone have their client configured to do that? That would be truly idiotic. Personally, my email is text only. It drops all HTML. I prefer it this way. :)

Nearly everyone has their client configured to do that, because it is the default setting. Gmail makes that very easy to change, but many other clients have it buried in the menu

None of the E-mail clients I use load external images by default and I haven't had to configure that behavior myself.

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#112

Post by account42 »

ale42 wrote: post #31
fragmede wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah no. Emails which include an unsubscribe link are legit enough to not do that. Actual spammers don't bother to include an unsubscribe link.

Not really true. Many spams (at least in the past) used to include unsubscribe link, either for faked-legal-compliance, to give some illusion of legitimacy of the mail/originating company to the recipient, and/or to track who is actually receiving them. But if you landed in a mailing list, there are quite high changes that the unsubscribe link is legit.

> But if you landed in a mailing list, there are quite high changes that the unsubscribe link is legit.

"Legit" in that it will unsubscribe you from that exact list but not the 100 others they added you to at the same time.

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#113

Post by justinclift »

Hnrobert42 wrote: post #98
justinclift wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When someone sends spam perhaps don't click on any "Unsubscribe" type link...? Those links are often spammer controlled and just confirm your email address as valid.

Nah. Hit unsubscribe every time. I own my own email domain, and I use a different email address per service. I have done so for 13 years. On legitimate emails, unsubscribe works correctly almost every time. True spam seems to originate from a handful of compromised services like LinkedIn, parkmobile, etc. I don’t hit unsubscribe on those, but I don’t see how it would make things any worse.

Would you happen to be running a windows desktop when checking your email?

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#114

Post by account42 »

stareatgoats wrote: post #42
gpderetta wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> scamming, spoofing and innocuous unsolicited marketing it is all spam; none of us want to see any of it, why do we need more fine grained control?

you forgot to mention "slow loading emails", and I might add "I don't remember signing up to this newsletter", or "ok I signed up to this newsletter but this article triggers me" etc. This "users can't handle fine-grained control" philosophy is stupifying users IMO. Granted, many don't have the knowhow, but they could just use the (hypothetical) dislike button, and the anti-spam AI could in that case place little wei…

The OP was talking about the unsubscribe loading too slow, not the mail. That is certainly grounds for being marked as spam.

Also "I don't remember signing up to this newsletter" is mostly a case of pre-checked "consent" to mails or companies packing on newsletter subscription as a requirement to some unrelated service. That's also spam.

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#115

Post by account42 »

ZWoz wrote: post #70
PedroBatista wrote: post #64

To be fair, Hotmail / Outlook is known to be the worst of the worst when it comes to accepting emails. Even a spotlessly configured MTA will not guarantee you anything.

Putting on my "postmaster at shared hosting company" hat: Used to be. Gmail is done lot of work to be worse than Outlook. At least MS idiosyncraties are somewhat known and stable. I would say that most customer complaints are related to gmail.

FWIW that has not been my experience with hosting my own personal mail. The only deliverability issue I had with Gmail was with a newly registered domain and even then they did at least deliver the mails to the spam folder (and soon enough directly to the inbox) which is much more than Microsoft does.

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#116

Post by account42 »

geff82 wrote: post #16

I have an outlook.com account, too and having a look at the Spam-folder is as important as looking at the Inbox. Too many important mails get missing with outlook

Worse, too many emails don't even get delived to Spam by Microsoft. Being able to tell people to check their spam folder would be a blessing.

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#117

Post by sbuk »

zahllos wrote: post #69
hannofcart wrote: post #39

Recently, I managed to get my personal mail server working and delivering to Outlook. Of all the major mail providers, I found getting my mails to Outlook the hardest. Gmail played nice once I setup DKIM, DMARC, SPF, MTA-STS, rDNS and a couple more things that I forgot setup exactly the way they like it. Outlook was harder though. I had to send a series of mails spread over multiple days to people who had Outlook acc…

Outlook are a pain. If you don't regularly send email to outlook.com they forget your IP and start responding with 550s. I have a daily message sent out from my server to a test account at outlook.com for two reasons: to try to work around this behaviour and to know immediately when there is a delivery issue.

> Outlook are a pain. If you don't regularly send email to outlook.com they forget your IP and start responding with 550s.

All providers should be doing that. Most will remove IPs/domains after 90-120 days.

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#118

Post by account42 »

dutchbrit wrote: post #81

I'd be pissed off if I were an Outlook user - it's a shame that big tech get treated as the "gold standard" - I get that spam prevention is important but it shouldn't hurt your business. Their support is below standards. I wonder how many opportunities Outlook businesses lose because they don't receive certain emails. That being said, email as a whole could do with being replaced with a more robust solution to make i…

The sad part is that this kind of behavior might actually be optimal for Microsoft. Most people won't even see the issue (as senders work around it) or blame the sender wheres they will start screeching if they so much as have to see a spam mail once in a while.

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#119

Post by gpderetta »

account42 wrote: post #114
stareatgoats wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you forgot to mention "slow loading emails", and I might add "I don't remember signing up to this newsletter", or "ok I signed up to this newsletter but this article triggers me" etc. This "users can't handle fine-grained control" philosophy is stupifying users IMO. Granted, many don't have the knowhow, but they could just use the (hypothetical) dislike button, and the anti-spam AI could in that case place little wei…

The OP was talking about the unsubscribe loading too slow, not the mail. That is certainly grounds for being marked as spam. Also "I don't remember signing up to this newsletter" is mostly a case of pre-checked "consent" to mails or companies packing on newsletter subscription as a requirement to some unrelated service. That's also spam.

Or the ever favorite: you need to login to be able to state your preference.

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#120

Post by stareatgoats »

account42 wrote: post #114
stareatgoats wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you forgot to mention "slow loading emails", and I might add "I don't remember signing up to this newsletter", or "ok I signed up to this newsletter but this article triggers me" etc. This "users can't handle fine-grained control" philosophy is stupifying users IMO. Granted, many don't have the knowhow, but they could just use the (hypothetical) dislike button, and the anti-spam AI could in that case place little wei…

The OP was talking about the unsubscribe loading too slow, not the mail. That is certainly grounds for being marked as spam. Also "I don't remember signing up to this newsletter" is mostly a case of pre-checked "consent" to mails or companies packing on newsletter subscription as a requirement to some unrelated service. That's also spam.

> The OP was talking about the unsubscribe loading too slow, not the mail.

OK thanks, my bad. But you also seem to miss something, namely my point: you seem to imply that I'd be opposed to users marking unsolicited or dark pattern mailing lists emails as spam, if they indeed are such. Or that the existence of such emails somehow undermines my point. But that's not it.

The overarching problem is of course spam in the first place, secondly the substandard systems that email services use to identify spam. In third place I'd place the problem I raised, that legit emails are not delivered correctly, where part of the problem seems to be that users use the 'spam' label as a dislike button.

But here's the kicker: this last problem is mainly what might threaten email as a means of correspondence, period: If I get a lot of junk then I can sift that out to get to my real messages. But if my real messages don't reach me at all then that's likely game over for the email era.

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