Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Canadian government reaches deal with Google on Online News Act

cbc.ca

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 213 posts

Re: Canadian government reaches deal with Google on Online News Act

#111

Post by ksherlock »

nolist_policy wrote: post #51

I wonder if this makes it harder for competition to enter the search engine market.

From the horse's mouth:

---

This Act applies in respect of a digital news intermediary if, having regard to the following factors, there is a significant bargaining power imbalance between its operator and news businesses:

(a) the size of the intermediary or the operator;

(b) whether the market for the intermediary gives the operator a strategic advantage over news businesses; and

(c) whether the intermediary occupies a prominent market position.

---

So a new search engine most likely won't initially have the size and market position necessary for the law to apply.

Re: Canadian government reaches deal with Google on Online News Act

#112

Post by brushfoot »

tannhaeuser wrote: post #89
brushfoot wrote: post #47

Even if you agree that Google should have to prop up Canadian news organizations—which I don't, but for the sake of argument—predicating that support specifically on hyperlinks seems like a terrible precedent to set. Any site of any size should be free to link wherever it wants, freely.

"Link tax" is clearly chosen in bad faith, like in other cases where that wording had been used. What's really happening is that Google Search shows previews of large parts of articles such that visitors don't go to origin sites to generate page impressions/ad playouts. Which is especially problematic since Google/Alphabet is either an ad provider on the skipped news site or its competitor.

The act targets more than content previews. Notice (b):

> (2) For the purposes of this Act, news content is made available if

> (a) the news content, or any portion of it, is reproduced; or

> (b) access to the news content, or any portion of it, is facilitated by any means, including an index, aggregation or ranking of news content.

Re: Canadian government reaches deal with Google on Online News Act

#113

Post by olalonde »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #92
olalonde wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Trusted Sources approved by Your Friend, The Government This. From the C-18 bill: Requires the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission (the “Commission”) to maintain a list of digital news intermediaries in respect of which the enactment applies.

It's not arbitrary. Any organization which meets fairly transparent requirements must be on the list.

That's in theory. In practice, it's the same CRTC that shutdown a right-wing radio station in Quebec for saying "offensive and insulting remarks"[0] and that recently considered banning Fox News from Canada[1]. It's hard to believe that they are really objective and impartial.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHOI-FM#Dispute_with_the_CRTC

[1] https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/crtc-delays-decision-...

Re: Canadian government reaches deal with Google on Online News Act

#114

Post by Dylan16807 »

wharvle wrote: post #103
randomdata wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Open Graph, which all the major news organization in Canada use, was created by Meta/Facebook to ensure that the news organizations have editorial control over what is "grabbed". If the news organizations want them to have less information, all they have to do is give less information.

Devil’s advocate: “You can choose what to give us and we’ll display it… but if what you give us isn’t good enough, who knows what might happen to your links’ prominence on our site?” isn’t quite some fully-voluntary thing when Google’s the one saying that.

"You can choose between prominence and opaqueness" seems like an okay deal in a vacuum.

I suppose the issue is more that there's too much competition for news, rather than google making the competition unfair.

Re: Canadian government reaches deal with Google on Online News Act

#115

Post by graeme »

xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #53

I'm glad Canada stayed relatively firm on this. The prior art in Australia made this a no brainer.

Meta left news in Canada and isn't set to return - no news media can post to Meta platforms. Now media outlets have lost a good chunk of their organic business model and are reduced to begging. The government implemented a large media tax subsidy as a result of how much C-18 cost the media so far.

And all pre-existing Meta and Google deals have been cancelled. This $100 million is all there is.

Re: Canadian government reaches deal with Google on Online News Act

#116

Post by randomdata »

acdha wrote: post #104
randomdata wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially when the news organization is free to deny the request referred by a linking party who has not offered the expected compensation. It is not clear why a new law is needed here when existing contract law already sufficiently covers the issue.

What happens when they set a referrer policy no-referrer? I’m sure Google and Meta would say that’s to protect user privacy. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Headers/Re...

The simplest option is to treat it as a rejection. Users aren't going to be dreaming up (choosing a recent article at random) URIs like /politics/federal/chiefs-of-ontario-says-trudeau-s-carbon-price-is-discriminatory-and-demand-a-review/article_9c995f63-1e26-56c6-9048-79781a9b649c.html in order to get there without some referring party.

Negotiations between Google/Meta and the news organization when defining the service contract can explore alternative options (access token, for example) should it be an imperative, for some reason, that the referrer still be inaccessible. People are allowed to talk to each other.

Re: Canadian government reaches deal with Google on Online News Act

#117

Post by jsnell »

tannhaeuser wrote: post #89
brushfoot wrote: post #47

Even if you agree that Google should have to prop up Canadian news organizations—which I don't, but for the sake of argument—predicating that support specifically on hyperlinks seems like a terrible precedent to set. Any site of any size should be free to link wherever it wants, freely.

"Link tax" is clearly chosen in bad faith, like in other cases where that wording had been used. What's really happening is that Google Search shows previews of large parts of articles such that visitors don't go to origin sites to generate page impressions/ad playouts. Which is especially problematic since Google/Alphabet is either an ad provider on the skipped news site or its competitor.

Except that the actual text of the law does not match your claim. It's about "facilitating access to news content by any means" including an "index" or "aggregation". Not about reproducing large chunks of the original content.

And it should be pretty obvious that this is the case. If your interpretation was correct, Meta would not have removed Canadian news sources entirely. They'd just have removed the previews (hell, the news companies could have removed the previews themselves; they already have the controls for that).

Re: Canadian government reaches deal with Google on Online News Act

#118

Post by graeme »

o11c wrote: post #45

So apparently it is plausible to require, then.

Meta is still out. No news media in Canada can share their articles there anymore. And Google has been exempted from the law - that's how the govt and google reached an agreement. The law called for google to bargain individually with each publisher, but instead google negotiated a $100 million payment with the government in order to have them not apply the law.

Re: Canadian government reaches deal with Google on Online News Act

#120

Post by graeme »

dghughes wrote: post #56
Georgelemental wrote: post #52

Who qualifies as a news organization under this law? Can any random declare themselves a "journalist"? Or do the benefits accrue only to Trusted Sources approved by Your Friend, The Government?

It's Bill C-18 here it is if you want to read it. https://www.parl.ca/DocumentViewer/en/44-1/bill/C-18/royal-a...

The govt is actually not applying C-18 to google. That's the deal that was signed: google makes an annual payment, and the govt doesn't designate them as a news provider.

So just like in Australia, the applies to nobody. The text of the law isn't very relevant, the whole thing is intended as an elaborate shakedown.

Post reply on HN