Earlier quoted context omitted.
I was of course talking in the context of a US based developer conference[0]. It's not a blanked assumption, it's an objective fact. I invite you to look up the statistics. In the same vein, it would be equally unsurprising to see a black only panel in Nigeria or an asian only panel in China. [0] https://cppcon.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/JTP_9606-1024x...
There was no reason to assume constraints you had not stated, and consider that the demographics of that picture seems to mesh poorly with the demographics of us tech employees, and ask yourself why that is.
Backlash over fake female speakers shuts down developer conference
111–120 of 126 posts
Re: Backlash over fake female speakers shuts down developer conference
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
There was no reason to assume constraints you had not stated, and consider that the demographics of that picture seems to mesh poorly with the demographics of us tech employees, and ask yourself why that is.
The article was about a US developer conference, that's where the constraint comes from... It's honestly just the first picture I found when googling for developer conferences.
> Given that the tech field is predominantly composed of white men
You've clarified, I'm still not convinced, as I noted, but it's at least closer.
Re: Backlash over fake female speakers shuts down developer conference
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
That doesn't mean there's a shortage sufficient for you to be unable to find any, and it raises the question of what is keeping the percentage that low, and sometimes part of the answer to that is that people can't see themselves there because of lack of representation (and yes, that does creat a chicken and egg problem). You may not be able to fix that, but anyone who claims to care about discrimination ought to at…
I think based on other comments I have read, we will have very different views on what constitutes discrimination, which to me is an active action not a passive result
Let me give an example, to explain:
* If you receive two applications and the one from someone in category A is better but you choose the one from category B, I presume we both agree that is active discrimination.
* What I'd argue is conscious discrimination but passive is if you e.g. choose to continue to let having graduated from school X count extra much when evaluating candidates, knowing that this will bias your results towards category B and that having graduated from school X has no demonstrable impacts relevant to the job. Whether or not this counts for you I guess may depend on whether you see the individual factoring in of the graduation as an active action or just continuing to passively accept the same discriminatory rules.
* What we'd presumably both agree is not conscious/intentional discrimination is if you choose to make having graduated from school X count more, but you do so you while having no idea that this will happen to bias hiring towards category B.
But in the last case, I'd argue that while we presumably agree it's not discrimination per se, it still perpetuates effects that are likely to be an outcome of discrimination - e.g. chances are the reason it causes a bias is that the school intake is biased.
I'm not saying people are bad for failing to fix every bias like that. I'm saying that someone who claims to care about discrimination ought to at a minimum aspire to paying attention to unexpected biases, ask themselves why, and consider if there are reasonable ways to address it. One way in this hypothetical example would be to examine which factors in the hiring seems to introduce a bias and determine if they actually objectively correlates with improved outcomes or not, as if their only function is to introduce a bias that does not produce better outcomes, they're to me unambiguously discriminatory whether or not that was the original intent.
Personally, I think a whole lot of discriminatory practices falls in this last category - people may not intent do, they just haven't thought through the impact. But some people have thought through the impact and let it stay this way on purpose (e.g. I mentioned in one comment how my ex pointed a situation like this out to her employer and they refused to address it - it was clear it was on purpose)
Re: Backlash over fake female speakers shuts down developer conference
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have to read a lot between the lines here so correct me if I misunderstand what happened. You ran a workshop, in the academic field, which tends to hire more women than men these days (your words). Your workshop still managed to be male dominated, despite being in a female-dominated field, and women complained about that?
You are indeed mistaken. The field isn't female-dominated. The claim was not that academic hiring hires more women, but that it is biased in favour of hiring women, which isn't the same. And even if it hired more women, that wouldn't make it female-dominated - a stock is not the same as a flow.
Re: Backlash over fake female speakers shuts down developer conference
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are indeed mistaken. The field isn't female-dominated. The claim was not that academic hiring hires more women, but that it is biased in favour of hiring women, which isn't the same. And even if it hired more women, that wouldn't make it female-dominated - a stock is not the same as a flow.
Then how does it relate to the original argument? Why does it matter that academia "already" has a pro-female bias in hiring? OP was talking about a workshop and speakers. Workshops and hiring are two different things, no?
Re: Backlash over fake female speakers shuts down developer conference
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are indeed mistaken. The field isn't female-dominated. The claim was not that academic hiring hires more women, but that it is biased in favour of hiring women, which isn't the same. And even if it hired more women, that wouldn't make it female-dominated - a stock is not the same as a flow.
Then how does it relate to the original argument? Why does it matter that academia "already" has a pro-female bias in hiring? OP was talking about a workshop and speakers. Workshops and hiring are two different things, no?
Re: Backlash over fake female speakers shuts down developer conference
#117>> IP logs from a forum for programmers obtained by 404 Media I am more interested in what forums is turning over their IP logs to the media, what the privacy policy was for that forum, and if other members of that forum know this is happening
Hi, I'm the forum admin who banned Sizovs for suckpuppeting a few years ago: https://lobste.rs/s/s67tjc/don_t_learn_too_many_things#c_nfn... I know this is pure whataboutism ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism ), but I don't have any duty to keep the secrets of sockpuppeting spammers; the forum privacy policy is short and unambiguous. No members have expressed concerns over me banning his accounts in 2019, i…
Re: Backlash over fake female speakers shuts down developer conference
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hi, I'm the forum admin who banned Sizovs for suckpuppeting a few years ago: https://lobste.rs/s/s67tjc/don_t_learn_too_many_things#c_nfn... I know this is pure whataboutism ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism ), but I don't have any duty to keep the secrets of sockpuppeting spammers; the forum privacy policy is short and unambiguous. No members have expressed concerns over me banning his accounts in 2019, i…
You did the right thing. Thanks.
Re: Backlash over fake female speakers shuts down developer conference
#119>> IP logs from a forum for programmers obtained by 404 Media I am more interested in what forums is turning over their IP logs to the media, what the privacy policy was for that forum, and if other members of that forum know this is happening
Hi, I'm the forum admin who banned Sizovs for suckpuppeting a few years ago: https://lobste.rs/s/s67tjc/don_t_learn_too_many_things#c_nfn... I know this is pure whataboutism ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism ), but I don't have any duty to keep the secrets of sockpuppeting spammers; the forum privacy policy is short and unambiguous. No members have expressed concerns over me banning his accounts in 2019, i…
Re: Backlash over fake female speakers shuts down developer conference
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hi, I'm the forum admin who banned Sizovs for suckpuppeting a few years ago: https://lobste.rs/s/s67tjc/don_t_learn_too_many_things#c_nfn... I know this is pure whataboutism ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism ), but I don't have any duty to keep the secrets of sockpuppeting spammers; the forum privacy policy is short and unambiguous. No members have expressed concerns over me banning his accounts in 2019, i…
You did the right thing. Thanks.